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however you are and whenever you are

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you're listening to paranormal now on

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the inception radio network

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I'm your host Alan B Smith and join us

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as we traverse the cosmic highway of

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paranormal pitstops and tantalizing

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turn-offs i'm very excited as i expect

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you would be to to speak with our guest

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tonight Kathleen Martin and Stanton

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Friedman to discuss the Roswell UFO

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incident in just a few minutes now if

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you're a regular listener to irn we have

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an iron smartphone app where you can

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listen to the live stream from home on

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the road or from a greasy diner

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somewhere off a dusty road the app also

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allows you to chat with other listeners

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provides show lineups and other

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information and tools if you're just

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finding us please like paranormal now on

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Facebook at paranal paranormal now radio

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or on instagram at paranormal now a

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brief reminder you can also listen to ir

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ends 24/7 stream using lives 365

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stitcher radio

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no vex radio tune in iTunes radio

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streamer shoutcast to win em we media

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player a quick time and also on the irn

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roku channel and if you have access to

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computer or smartphone you can call from

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your landline or cell phone to listen to

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the free 24 hours seven days a week

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broadcast which is four oh one two eight

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three six seven zero zero now this is a

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podcast as I say every week so although

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we are broadcast on a regularly

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scheduled program every Saturday we are

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not actually live so please don't try to

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call in and now for your paranormal

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words of wisdom hey guys it's Eliana so

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as a very young woman still just

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beginning to research this paranormal

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phenomena my words of wisdom would be to

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start with inner knowledge get to know

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yourself and start to hone your

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intuition so you can use it as a way to

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help you discern what is the truth

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because along your research you'll find

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disinformation or unreliable sources so

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the thinking mind is absolutely

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something to be utilized but it pales in

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comparison to the inner wisdom of your

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intuition

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enjoy this episode of paranormal now and

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follow us on instagram at mind-altering

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media and that was your paranormal now

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words of wisdom by Eliana from

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mind-altering media you can find out

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more about her on IG at mind-altering

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media and her website is mind-altering

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media.com my guests are first kathleen

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Mardon is a leading researcher of

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contact with non-human intelligence and

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author and lecturer her educational

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background in the social sciences has

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shaped her interests in scientific

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ufology

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extensive research and an investigation

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into alien abduction has convinced her

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that some abductions are real she earned

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a BA in social work from the University

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of New Hampshire and participated in

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graduate studies in education while

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working as a teacher and education

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services coordinator her scholarship led

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to acceptance into the Alpha Kappa Alpha

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Kappa Delta sociological Honor Society

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during her 15 years as an educator she

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innovated designed and implemented model

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educational programs she also held a

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supervisory position coordinating

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training and evaluating education staff

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her interest in UFOs dates back to

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September 20th 1961 when her aunt Betty

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hill phoned her childhood home to report

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that she and Barney had encountered a

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flying saucer in New Hampshire's White

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Mountains a primary witness to the

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evidence of the UFO encounter and the

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aftermath Kathleen has intimate

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knowledge of the hills biographical

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histories investigation files and

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scientific interest in their sensational

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experience this led to a journey of

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exploration leaving no stone unturned to

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find answers through scholarly work

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investigation and social research she is

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recognized in the world's leading expert

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on the Betty and Barney Hill abduction

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she is associated with the mutual UFO

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network as its director of experiencer

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research and the Edgar Mitchell

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foundation for research into

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extraterrestrial encounters also known

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as free as an advisory board member and

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consultant to its research subcommittee

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she was a recipient of MUFON 2012

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excellence in ufology award she makes it

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clear that the opinions expressed by her

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are her

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own and do not necessarily reflect the

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views of the organization of what she is

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a member Kathleen has written three

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books with nuclear physicist scientific

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ufologists Anton Freeman captured the

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Betty and Barney Hill UFO experience

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science was wrong and in fact fiction

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and flying saucers and one book the

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alien abduction files with Denise stoner

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she is currently working on MUFON

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experience our survey which will

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hopefully be completed by the end of

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2017 which we are very close to so I'll

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ask Kathleen about that Kathy has given

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expert testimony on the discovery

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history H to National Geographic and

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destination American channels that's a

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lot of information right there and a

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whole history of valuable research just

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from Kathleen now our second guest is

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nuclear physicist lecturer Stanton T

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Friedman who received his BSC and MSC

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degrees in physics from the University

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of Chicago in 1955 and 1956 he was

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employed for 14 years as a nuclear

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physicist by such companies as GE GM

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Westinghouse TRW Systems Aerojet General

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nucleonic s-- and McDow McDonnell

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Douglas working in such highly advanced

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classified eventually canceled programs

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as nuclear aircraft fission and fusion

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rockets and various compact nuclear

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power plants for space and terrestrial

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applications he became interested in

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UFOs in 1958 and since 1967 has lectured

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about them more than about 16 600

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colleges and a hundred professional

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groups in 50 US states ten Canadian

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provinces and 18 other countries in

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addition to various nuclear counseling

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count salting efforts he has published

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more than 90 UFO papers and has appeared

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on hundreds of radio and TV programs

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including on Larry King in 2007 and

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twice in 2008 and many documentaries he

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has the original civilian investigator

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of the topic we are speaking about

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tonight the Roswell incident and

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co-authored crash at Corona the

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definitive study of the Roswell incident

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which changed the investigative field of

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ufology forever top-secret and magic his

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controversial book about the majestic 12

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group

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established in 1947 to deal with alien

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technology was published in 1996 and

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went through six printings and expanded

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new edition was published in 2005 Stan

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was presented with a lifetime UFO

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Achievement Award in Leeds England in

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2002 by UFO magazine of the UK he is

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co-author with kathleen Mardon we've

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covered those books so I will skip this

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portion he is his book flying saucers

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and science was published in June 2008

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and is in its third printing his newest

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book also authored by Kathleen Martin is

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science was wrong released in June 2010

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and that is not his most recent book so

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we'll have to have a stand comment on

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that um he has provided written

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testimony to congressional hearings

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appeared twice at the UN and been a

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pioneer in many aspects of ufology

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including Roswell majestic 12 the Betty

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Hill Marjorie fish star map work

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analysis of the delphos Kansas physical

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trace crash one of the best out there

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crashed saucers flying saucer technology

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and challenges to the SETI silly effort

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to investigate 11 cultists he has spoken

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that more you move funds symposia than

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anyone else Stanton T Friedman is a dual

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citizen of the USA and Canada whoo I got

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through that

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welcome to the show Stan and Kathleen

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thank you great to be back with you

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welcome back it's my pleasure so yeah if

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there's anything else that you guys feel

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like you needed to add in there please

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just jump in and fill us in that's more

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than I think you've covered at all all

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right and we've got a lot to talk about

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tonight of course so I know we've heard

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my voice more than usual at the top of

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the show however I'm gonna read

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something here for for you and this is

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something that kind of touches a very

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nostalgic place in my heart so just bear

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with me

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and then I'll ask for your uh you know

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feedback after you hear what I have to

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read here this is from an article from

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some years ago a cloud of brown dust

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sneaks behind me as I speed down the

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desolate desert road a dozen miles ago I

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passed the solitary steel mailbox that

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marks the turnoff for area 51 for a

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place that isn't supposed to exist it's

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odd that the secret airbase

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occupies whole chapters of aviation

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history it was here in 1955 that the u-2

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spy plane first took wing in the years

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that followed its successors the a12 and

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sr-71 and later the stealthy f/11 7 a

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fighter and b-2 bomber danced across the

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same blue steel in the bodice sky rumors

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persist of even more amazing aircraft

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secret hangars supposedly concealed the

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mythical Aurora and methane burning

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replacement for the high-flying

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sr-71 spy plane and if you believe that

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x-files and J edgar Hoover's dress

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collection collection exists there are

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even crashed UFOs the engineers patched

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up and somehow learned how to fly I'm

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not searching for hypersonic aircraft or

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ETS flying machine my mission is less

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lofty I'm trying to avoid getting

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arrested when Popular Mechanics

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correspondent Abe Dane traveled these

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roads to research our january 1995 cover

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story flying saucers are real camouflage

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guards driving white Jeep Cherokees

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dogged his every turn now if I had to

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ask you guys could you guess what year

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that was written I don't no idea right

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exactly

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so that was 1995 so recently my wife and

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I were moving and as we were uncovering

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things I found this old Popular

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Mechanics magazine that I had saved so

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and I read through and I thought you

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know anyone could have written this

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today and you would be telling the same

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story

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so I guess my question is in the past

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couple of decades how much how much more

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have we learned oh boy that's a toughy

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guy I'm are you saying about UFOs or

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about the life in the universe what's I

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would say more area 51 oriented since

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we're going to be talking about Corona

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and Roswell tonight well okay we've

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learned we've certainly turned up more

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witnesses to Roswell but they're dead I

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mean you know of the there is a DVD

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recollections of raw

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well which has testimony from 27

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firsthand witnesses all but one of whom

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are dead I mean it happened 70 years ago

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you know so that's not surprising what

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there have been some changes though that

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are significant one is the attitude of

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the world our attitude we Earthlings I'm

276
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presuming you're indirectly we

277
00:11:45,470 --> 00:11:42,650
Earthlings have come to realize that

278
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:45,480
rather than being you know here we are

279
00:11:51,140 --> 00:11:49,050
on earth the king of the planets and the

280
00:11:53,870 --> 00:11:51,150
only planet in the solar system that's

281
00:11:57,079 --> 00:11:53,880
got water and oxygen and so forth on the

282
00:11:58,940 --> 00:11:57,089
surface and there's no other solar

283
00:12:02,810 --> 00:11:58,950
sister around that was an attitude not

284
00:12:05,150 --> 00:12:02,820
too many years ago today we know that

285
00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:05,160
the number that's given by the

286
00:12:12,110 --> 00:12:08,220
scientific community is 1.6 planets per

287
00:12:13,610 --> 00:12:12,120
star so rather than stars Frank Drake

288
00:12:16,460 --> 00:12:13,620
once said there might be as many as

289
00:12:20,630 --> 00:12:16,470
8,000 in the galaxy now the number that

290
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:20,640
we talk about is a hundred billion so

291
00:12:24,890 --> 00:12:23,130
planets are all over the place there's

292
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:24,900
ten thousand planets within a hundred

293
00:12:30,410 --> 00:12:28,050
light-years of here ten thousand stars

294
00:12:33,530 --> 00:12:30,420
I'm sorry and about sixteen thousand

295
00:12:36,170 --> 00:12:33,540
planets so rather than being the big

296
00:12:38,420 --> 00:12:36,180
shots the unique the special place it

297
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:38,430
looks like we're run of the MIL as far

298
00:12:45,410 --> 00:12:41,730
as - oh I hate to say that you know we

299
00:12:46,910 --> 00:12:45,420
want to be special but so that there's a

300
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:46,920
different attitude in other words and

301
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:49,170
there very few people who say now that

302
00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:52,170
we're alone in the universe it is nobody

303
00:12:58,579 --> 00:12:55,310
out there we've also learned a lot about

304
00:13:02,630 --> 00:12:58,589
energy production and ways to get from

305
00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:02,640
here to there so there have been changes

306
00:13:09,740 --> 00:13:05,910
in our perception of ourselves of the

307
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:09,750
local neighborhood now we haven't

308
00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:12,959
learned a lot about more classified

309
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:15,180
activity that's been going on about this

310
00:13:19,790 --> 00:13:17,010
subject

311
00:13:24,620 --> 00:13:19,800
not much Declassified as far as I can

312
00:13:26,510 --> 00:13:24,630
tell not in the last umpteen years so

313
00:13:27,860 --> 00:13:26,520
that would be one area I'd like to see

314
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:27,870
more work done on

315
00:13:35,630 --> 00:13:31,490
hey guys fess up give us the paperwork

316
00:13:37,810 --> 00:13:35,640
but that would lead to gia push for

317
00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:37,820
people on the planet to think that we're

318
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:41,100
all earthlings and that they're aliens

319
00:13:45,340 --> 00:13:43,770
out there and I guess there's some

320
00:13:48,829 --> 00:13:45,350
people don't want us to think that way

321
00:13:52,329 --> 00:13:48,839
yeah and and I and I wonder more

322
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:52,339
specifically to the article - as far as

323
00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:55,650
advanced technology because last time we

324
00:13:59,690 --> 00:13:57,570
spoke Sandy's and you spoke would have

325
00:14:02,390 --> 00:13:59,700
been about interstellar travel and the

326
00:14:04,910 --> 00:14:02,400
feasibility built into physics for that

327
00:14:07,579 --> 00:14:04,920
and you know in this article it you know

328
00:14:13,250 --> 00:14:07,589
talks about the Aurora you know the b2

329
00:14:14,990 --> 00:14:13,260
the sr-71 you know since then yeah have

330
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:15,000
we heard of any other more advanced

331
00:14:22,579 --> 00:14:18,000
aircraft that that really fascinates you

332
00:14:24,350 --> 00:14:22,589
that the me know that no I don't think

333
00:14:29,180 --> 00:14:24,360
so I'm not saying there aren't any out

334
00:14:32,420 --> 00:14:29,190
there in secret but cos I but to my

335
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:32,430
knowledge there are no those super duper

336
00:14:38,090 --> 00:14:35,490
hyper special high-performance aircraft

337
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:38,100
out there and if there are we're not

338
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:41,010
talking about them whether that's the

339
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:42,570
fool the Russians and the Chinese and

340
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:44,370
others you know I don't know who are

341
00:14:52,130 --> 00:14:46,410
working on their super duper aircraft I

342
00:14:53,660 --> 00:14:52,140
don't know but we have recognized that

343
00:14:56,329 --> 00:14:53,670
we're not the big shots in the

344
00:14:59,000 --> 00:14:56,339
neighborhood which is probably a good

345
00:15:02,360 --> 00:14:59,010
thing although you know it's interesting

346
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:02,370
within the last two months almost two

347
00:15:07,730 --> 00:15:04,970
months ago there was a special issue of

348
00:15:10,490 --> 00:15:07,740
Scientific American devoted to life in

349
00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:10,500
the universe and just within the past

350
00:15:15,980 --> 00:15:12,600
two weeks Newsweek magazine had a

351
00:15:18,260 --> 00:15:15,990
special edition under pages long loaded

352
00:15:21,949 --> 00:15:18,270
with pictures and it's called life

353
00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:21,959
beyond Earth question mark the mission

354
00:15:28,300 --> 00:15:25,110
to find the answer small princess

355
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:28,310
exploring the universe with researchers

356
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:32,880
astronomers eyewitnesses and More war do

357
00:15:41,079 --> 00:15:37,110
you want so that's two major magazines

358
00:15:44,439 --> 00:15:41,089
and they both do mention UFOs and

359
00:15:46,449 --> 00:15:44,449
in a nasty stupid sort of way you know

360
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:46,459
they don't talk about those UFO nuts or

361
00:15:53,259 --> 00:15:48,800
anything like that so we're making

362
00:15:55,420 --> 00:15:53,269
progress and both of us wish that they

363
00:15:57,549 --> 00:15:55,430
had mentioned our books but they've

364
00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:57,559
mentioned quite a few books and quite a

365
00:16:05,769 --> 00:16:00,079
few researchers so we'll have to catch

366
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:05,779
the next special or an interesting point

367
00:16:12,670 --> 00:16:10,399
to know just-just but you know the times

368
00:16:16,030 --> 00:16:12,680
have changed when two major publications

369
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:16,040
can take a decent attitude toward UFOs

370
00:16:20,650 --> 00:16:18,800
and life you know most of the SETI

371
00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:20,660
community the Sibley effort to

372
00:16:25,689 --> 00:16:22,430
investigate community you know when I

373
00:16:29,230 --> 00:16:25,699
talk about they ignore UFOs they don't

374
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:29,240
want to talk about it obviously people

375
00:16:34,030 --> 00:16:32,480
say why if aliens are visiting here then

376
00:16:36,610 --> 00:16:34,040
who needs to listen with the radio

377
00:16:38,439 --> 00:16:36,620
telescope maybe you need sign language

378
00:16:42,249 --> 00:16:38,449
you know next time you happen to meet an

379
00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:42,259
alien I don't know so there have been

380
00:16:49,509 --> 00:16:47,720
changes and we're getting there and the

381
00:16:51,669 --> 00:16:49,519
interesting thing about the research

382
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:51,679
into ufology is that there is a

383
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:55,279
periphery of other fascinating topics

384
00:17:00,730 --> 00:16:57,050
that you know it's are associated

385
00:17:01,749 --> 00:17:00,740
directly to this study and you know so I

386
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:01,759
wonder

387
00:17:05,649 --> 00:17:03,290
Kathleen maybe you want you want to take

388
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:05,659
this because I know you've done a lot of

389
00:17:11,769 --> 00:17:07,510
work for MUFON and free in particular

390
00:17:15,610 --> 00:17:11,779
and you know I've I've worked with via

391
00:17:17,230 --> 00:17:15,620
the airwaves with dr. Joseph Burks with

392
00:17:20,289 --> 00:17:17,240
epic voyages radio so we've talked a lot

393
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:20,299
about about experiencers and you know

394
00:17:25,059 --> 00:17:23,360
what people have have seen as far as you

395
00:17:27,699 --> 00:17:25,069
know the more fringe reports of

396
00:17:30,340 --> 00:17:27,709
extraterrestrial beings

397
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:30,350
so what I'm leaving with this is you

398
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:34,010
know what is a UFO nut I mean you know

399
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:36,559
is there is there a place where you say

400
00:17:44,139 --> 00:17:39,679
okay this this person is is crossing a

401
00:17:46,330 --> 00:17:44,149
line is there a line I believe that

402
00:17:51,539 --> 00:17:46,340
there is and the reason I say that is

403
00:17:54,670 --> 00:17:51,549
that normally when I interview

404
00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:54,680
individuals say

405
00:18:00,310 --> 00:17:57,890
tell me the facts they might express

406
00:18:05,770 --> 00:18:00,320
their emotional reaction to the

407
00:18:09,850 --> 00:18:05,780
experience but there they don't play

408
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:09,860
upon conspiracy theory very much but

409
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:13,810
occasionally I find a witness who is

410
00:18:19,690 --> 00:18:17,090
completely absorbed in a conspiracy

411
00:18:23,170 --> 00:18:19,700
theories and the information that they

412
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:23,180
are sharing with me is obviously coming

413
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:25,370
off the internet and they'll even

414
00:18:31,450 --> 00:18:28,160
encourage me to start investigating

415
00:18:36,430 --> 00:18:31,460
these conspiracy theories so I consider

416
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:36,440
those individuals to be UFO nuts and you

417
00:18:45,090 --> 00:18:40,510
know different from your mainstream UFO

418
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:45,100
interested individual or your mainstream

419
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:50,690
witness to UFOs or mainstream contacting

420
00:18:58,480 --> 00:18:56,000
your abductee and stenting you you know

421
00:19:00,100 --> 00:18:58,490
did most of the work earlier on to to

422
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:00,110
show the world like hey you know what

423
00:19:05,140 --> 00:19:03,290
there is a way to prove that something's

424
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:05,150
going on here without physical trace

425
00:19:09,970 --> 00:19:08,480
evidence you know or eyewitness reports

426
00:19:12,970 --> 00:19:09,980
you know it's it's in the documentation

427
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:12,980
the government has ostensibly admitted

428
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:16,490
it and you know that opened up a whole

429
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:19,520
wide field of research that I don't

430
00:19:23,170 --> 00:19:21,890
think was you know really there before

431
00:19:25,630 --> 00:19:23,180
other than some you know well-written

432
00:19:29,860 --> 00:19:25,640
books that just you know it hadn't quite

433
00:19:32,980 --> 00:19:29,870
caught fire yet do you yeah I'm very

434
00:19:35,580 --> 00:19:32,990
pleased that we don't do research by

435
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:35,590
Proclamation we do research by

436
00:19:41,220 --> 00:19:38,570
investigation and there is a difference

437
00:19:43,570 --> 00:19:41,230
and the key word for us is evidence

438
00:19:47,370 --> 00:19:43,580
stories aren't good enough we need

439
00:19:51,070 --> 00:19:47,380
evidence like I've been to 20 archives

440
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:51,080
document archives that's where you get

441
00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:54,410
solid stuff you know stories are easy to

442
00:20:01,480 --> 00:19:57,110
come by science fiction has been written

443
00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:01,490
for a very long time but what we want is

444
00:20:08,350 --> 00:20:06,110
evidence and so it's the effort we're

445
00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:08,360
trying to push for people

446
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:11,809
to gather evidence it's not just

447
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:14,480
testimony testimonies part of it but you

448
00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:16,400
know in the physical trace cases we'd

449
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:18,110
like to have measurements made of the

450
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:21,170
characteristics of the soil that's been

451
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:23,510
affected by the saucer that came down in

452
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:26,450
that area we want analysis of

453
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:29,330
photographs not just isn't that a neat

454
00:20:33,970 --> 00:20:32,210
picture of a flying saucer but what can

455
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:33,980
we say when we look at it very carefully

456
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:37,600
from a professional viewpoint and so

457
00:20:44,980 --> 00:20:42,080
it's become fascinating to see the

458
00:20:48,010 --> 00:20:44,990
distinction and there are fewer I think

459
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:48,020
of the people who waved their hands as

460
00:20:55,180 --> 00:20:52,000
Catholics with conspiracy stuff and

461
00:20:58,480 --> 00:20:55,190
stories that they've heard I must say I

462
00:21:00,580 --> 00:20:58,490
was rather disappointed I read the

463
00:21:03,789 --> 00:21:00,590
proceedings on the last MUFON conference

464
00:21:07,390 --> 00:21:03,799
in Las Vegas it was about the secret

465
00:21:10,289 --> 00:21:07,400
space program and I read the proceedings

466
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:10,299
all of papers and what was missing was

467
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:13,850
evidence there were great stories but

468
00:21:20,370 --> 00:21:17,600
evidence I mean I can prove to you for

469
00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:20,380
example that the National Security

470
00:21:26,130 --> 00:21:23,600
Agency the NSA or is properly known as

471
00:21:31,570 --> 00:21:26,140
never says anything or no such agency

472
00:21:36,190 --> 00:21:31,580
Victor picker choice but we know that

473
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:36,200
they released 156 pages of top-secret

474
00:21:41,799 --> 00:21:40,130
umbra UFO documents and the only trouble

475
00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:41,809
was you could read one sentence per page

476
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:44,270
and yet I get people telling me all

477
00:21:48,580 --> 00:21:46,130
there is no secret materials and there's

478
00:21:50,530 --> 00:21:48,590
not classified material left about UFOs

479
00:21:53,890 --> 00:21:50,540
you can get anything these days

480
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:53,900
that's nonsense I worked under security

481
00:21:59,080 --> 00:21:56,090
for 14 years I will guarantee you that

482
00:22:02,260 --> 00:21:59,090
secrets can be kept there's lots of

483
00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:02,270
stuff still classified what's basically

484
00:22:10,060 --> 00:22:06,110
went after the CIA the citizens against

485
00:22:12,130 --> 00:22:10,070
UFO secrecy for their UFO documents and

486
00:22:15,130 --> 00:22:12,140
first they released a few and then a

487
00:22:21,070 --> 00:22:15,140
listing and then finally we got over 700

488
00:22:22,210 --> 00:22:21,080
pages of secret or confidential CIA UFO

489
00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:22,220
documents

490
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,039
heavily redacted and it took another

491
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:27,440
several years before it could get them

492
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:30,530
to release a bunch of top secret UFO

493
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:33,200
documents they're all blocked out no

494
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:35,690
cover-up well I'll tell ya I don't know

495
00:22:40,810 --> 00:22:38,330
what's underneath that black ink but

496
00:22:46,270 --> 00:22:40,820
scrape scraping it won't do it there's

497
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:46,280
nothing necklace why you get Xerox

498
00:22:49,810 --> 00:22:48,320
copies of the originals they don't send

499
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:49,820
you the originals I've had people say

500
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:51,650
well why don't you just scrape off the

501
00:22:57,340 --> 00:22:53,360
black and see what's underneath well

502
00:23:00,970 --> 00:22:57,350
there ain't nothin underneath not on

503
00:23:05,020 --> 00:23:00,980
what we get so there's some certain

504
00:23:06,730 --> 00:23:05,030
mythology about UFOs which you know

505
00:23:08,919 --> 00:23:06,740
people choose to believe what they

506
00:23:11,770 --> 00:23:08,929
choose to believe regardless of the

507
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:11,780
evidence but there is enormous evidence

508
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:13,760
that's led me and I think happy to

509
00:23:18,730 --> 00:23:16,000
believe that some UFOs are

510
00:23:21,730 --> 00:23:18,740
extraterrestrial spacecraft that the

511
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:21,740
government is putting forth a cosmic

512
00:23:27,779 --> 00:23:25,490
Watergate that we're dealing with proof

513
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:27,789
that Earth is being visited by

514
00:23:31,539 --> 00:23:29,090
intelligently controlled

515
00:23:33,070 --> 00:23:31,549
extraterrestrial vehicles and we're

516
00:23:35,289 --> 00:23:33,080
dealing with one of the biggest stories

517
00:23:37,390 --> 00:23:35,299
of the millennium I don't say two

518
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:37,400
millennia because then people start to

519
00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:38,960
argue about religion and I don't want to

520
00:23:46,270 --> 00:23:44,900
get involved you know and then you can

521
00:23:47,950 --> 00:23:46,280
cross over into the ancient aliens

522
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:47,960
discussion and you know that's not

523
00:23:53,919 --> 00:23:50,710
really what we'll be going tonight

524
00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:53,929
Kathleen are you very familiar with the

525
00:24:00,100 --> 00:23:57,110
the Roswell incident I know that may not

526
00:24:03,340 --> 00:24:00,110
necessarily be your main area of focus

527
00:24:05,770 --> 00:24:03,350
but you know what what is your overall

528
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:05,780
sense of what happened there was was

529
00:24:11,470 --> 00:24:09,919
there an actual alien crash I do believe

530
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:11,480
there was and I think that it's

531
00:24:17,919 --> 00:24:14,690
important to place what happened in

532
00:24:21,010 --> 00:24:17,929
Roswell within the time frame of what

533
00:24:25,270 --> 00:24:21,020
was going on in this country and with

534
00:24:32,289 --> 00:24:25,280
our army Air Force at that time and on

535
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:32,299
June 27 June 24th 1947 just a couple of

536
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:35,570
weeks before the Roswell news pay

537
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:39,170
per reported in its headlines that a

538
00:24:47,140 --> 00:24:42,290
flying disc had been recovered near

539
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:47,150
Roswell Kenneth Arnold up in Washington

540
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:50,810
the Cascade Mountains was out searching

541
00:25:00,790 --> 00:24:55,610
for a downed marine c-46 transport plane

542
00:25:03,460 --> 00:25:00,800
when he saw nine crescent-shaped disks

543
00:25:06,910 --> 00:25:03,470
one of those disks actually had a double

544
00:25:09,730 --> 00:25:06,920
Crescent on the back and it was they

545
00:25:12,790 --> 00:25:09,740
were highly unusual it was reported in

546
00:25:14,890 --> 00:25:12,800
the media it was even later determined

547
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:14,900
that they were traveling nearly three

548
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:17,840
times as fast as any plane in that time

549
00:25:25,660 --> 00:25:20,450
frame there were witnesses on the same

550
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:25,670
day who saw vehicles in the air with

551
00:25:32,740 --> 00:25:29,120
similar descriptions and had reported

552
00:25:37,540 --> 00:25:32,750
that as well the American public became

553
00:25:39,460 --> 00:25:37,550
fascinated with this and really showed a

554
00:25:41,740 --> 00:25:39,470
lot of interest in what was going on

555
00:25:44,860 --> 00:25:41,750
people were out looking into the sky at

556
00:25:47,890 --> 00:25:44,870
night and more reports were made but

557
00:25:51,730 --> 00:25:47,900
there was a minister who told his

558
00:25:55,780 --> 00:25:51,740
congregation that this signaled the end

559
00:26:00,700 --> 00:25:55,790
of the earth and it upset a lot of

560
00:26:03,580 --> 00:26:00,710
people and so not many days after was

561
00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:03,590
only six days later Brigadier General

562
00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:07,910
Roger Ramey who's the commanding officer

563
00:26:15,250 --> 00:26:10,480
at the 8th Air Force in Fort Worth Texas

564
00:26:19,780 --> 00:26:15,260
the same general who worked on the

565
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:19,790
Roswell crash came had a press

566
00:26:24,670 --> 00:26:22,010
conference with his chief intelligence

567
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:24,680
officer and told the public not to worry

568
00:26:30,790 --> 00:26:27,770
that it was not an extraterrestrial

569
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:30,800
craft or crafts that Kenneth Arnold

570
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:33,170
observed but it was only weather

571
00:26:42,790 --> 00:26:37,520
phenomena so it wasn't long thereafter

572
00:26:48,090 --> 00:26:42,800
that Mac Brazel heard a noise at night

573
00:26:49,490 --> 00:26:48,100
and there were a lot of thunderstorms in

574
00:26:52,270 --> 00:26:49,500
Roswell

575
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:52,280
time of the year a lot of loud clashing

576
00:26:59,480 --> 00:26:56,490
noises but he said that this was highly

577
00:27:05,720 --> 00:26:59,490
unusual that it was not thunder that he

578
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:05,730
heard and so the next morning he and a

579
00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:08,640
little boy who was one of his neighbor's

580
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:13,110
sons went out on their horses to explore

581
00:27:20,450 --> 00:27:16,290
to see what that was all about see if

582
00:27:25,730 --> 00:27:20,460
they could find any evidence and what he

583
00:27:29,060 --> 00:27:25,740
saw was a lot of evidence that something

584
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:29,070
had fallen to the ground and it was

585
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:32,250
scattered over a wide area there was a

586
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:35,330
gouge in the soil and there were

587
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:39,890
fragments of this material that had

588
00:27:46,580 --> 00:27:44,730
highly unusual properties in an area

589
00:27:49,790 --> 00:27:46,590
about three-quarters of a mile long and

590
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:49,800
several hundred feet wide and he was

591
00:27:56,090 --> 00:27:52,320
having a problem because he was tending

592
00:27:59,780 --> 00:27:56,100
the Sheep out there and the sheep would

593
00:28:04,250 --> 00:27:59,790
not cross that area so he had to move

594
00:28:09,230 --> 00:28:04,260
the sheep around that area and then he

595
00:28:14,390 --> 00:28:09,240
went into a bar it was called a Wade bar

596
00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:14,400
in nearby Corona New Mexico and he had

597
00:28:20,330 --> 00:28:17,880
some pieces of that material with him he

598
00:28:22,670 --> 00:28:20,340
had seen weather balloons before he knew

599
00:28:25,030 --> 00:28:22,680
what they looked like but this was

600
00:28:30,590 --> 00:28:25,040
highly unusual had highly unusual

601
00:28:31,730 --> 00:28:30,600
properties yes yeah first break and

602
00:28:34,010 --> 00:28:31,740
we're speaking about highly unusual

603
00:28:36,140 --> 00:28:34,020
things this is Alan B Smith on the

604
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:36,150
inception radio network this is

605
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:41,910
paranormal now and we'll be welcome back

606
00:28:45,710 --> 00:28:43,530
to paranormal now this is Alan B Smith

607
00:28:48,830 --> 00:28:45,720
your host and tonight I am speaking with

608
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:48,840
Stanton Friedman and Kathleen Martin and

609
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:50,130
thickness of the break was bulletproof

610
00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:52,650
by room

611
00:28:56,540 --> 00:28:54,480
if you're new to listening to paranormal

612
00:28:59,060 --> 00:28:56,550
now you can always find me on instagram

613
00:29:02,440 --> 00:28:59,070
it's at power normal now or you can go

614
00:29:05,660 --> 00:29:02,450
to Facebook at paranormal now radio

615
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:05,670
xanthine what website can people find

616
00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:10,080
most of your books and works at triple w

617
00:29:18,350 --> 00:29:13,140
dot Stanton Friedman dot-com very easy

618
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:18,360
and Friedman is FR i DM aen some people

619
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:20,880
want to reverse the inee so you got to

620
00:29:33,169 --> 00:29:26,880
get it right it's triple w kathleen with

621
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:33,179
a k - Mardon ma r de n calm alright

622
00:29:43,370 --> 00:29:36,090
fantastic so we left it off at finding

623
00:29:44,930 --> 00:29:43,380
debris that easily identified if it were

624
00:29:49,820 --> 00:29:44,940
a weather balloon

625
00:29:53,090 --> 00:29:49,830
but yes weather balloons fell from the

626
00:29:54,919 --> 00:29:53,100
sky frequently in that area so the

627
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:54,929
people who lived in that area and

628
00:30:01,580 --> 00:29:57,840
especially people like Mac Brazel who

629
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:01,590
was out working on a ranch would come

630
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:04,559
across down weather balloons all the

631
00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:08,730
time so worried about the one important

632
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:11,520
thing to the renter's was some of the

633
00:30:16,430 --> 00:30:14,370
cattle in especially the sheep tended to

634
00:30:18,140 --> 00:30:16,440
eat anything that was around and the

635
00:30:23,169 --> 00:30:18,150
last thing they wanted was any of their

636
00:30:27,020 --> 00:30:23,179
animals eating foil-like material from

637
00:30:28,940 --> 00:30:27,030
yes it was paper backed - right and that

638
00:30:31,940 --> 00:30:28,950
you know I think you make a really good

639
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:31,950
point there because anybody who is into

640
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:34,730
or is a farmer Rancher

641
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:37,730
no matter what their education may be

642
00:30:43,730 --> 00:30:40,559
they have to have a certain amount of

643
00:30:47,060 --> 00:30:43,740
keen perception in order to do what they

644
00:30:48,290 --> 00:30:47,070
do well and knowing your environment and

645
00:30:50,530 --> 00:30:48,300
knowing the things that could hurt your

646
00:30:52,970 --> 00:30:50,540
animals hurt your crops things to avoid

647
00:30:56,570 --> 00:30:52,980
you know I would think you might not get

648
00:30:59,290 --> 00:30:56,580
any keener eyes then this the you know

649
00:31:01,690 --> 00:30:59,300
the likes that we were speaking of here

650
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:01,700
certainly more than the usual city guys

651
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:04,850
absolutely I know people here that are

652
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:07,250
you leave the city so the woods scared

653
00:31:16,210 --> 00:31:11,840
them let's continue on with where he

654
00:31:20,820 --> 00:31:16,220
left off there yes so somebody told him

655
00:31:24,970 --> 00:31:20,830
that if he could take that wreckage to

656
00:31:27,370 --> 00:31:24,980
the Air Force or the army actually base

657
00:31:32,410 --> 00:31:27,380
in Roswell that he would be able to

658
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:32,420
collect a $3,000 reward so on July 6th

659
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:37,010
he drove that 75 miles from his place to

660
00:31:44,650 --> 00:31:41,450
Roswell and he got in touch with Jesse

661
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:44,660
Marcel who was the base intelligence

662
00:31:53,620 --> 00:31:49,210
officer and met with him and showed him

663
00:32:02,290 --> 00:31:53,630
the wreckage that he had and then later

664
00:32:05,490 --> 00:32:02,300
that day he and Jesse Marcel and also a

665
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:05,500
man by the name of Cavett

666
00:32:13,090 --> 00:32:08,720
who was also a counterintelligence

667
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:13,100
officer at the base may made the trip

668
00:32:22,570 --> 00:32:18,290
back to the ranch and Jesse Marcel was

669
00:32:28,540 --> 00:32:22,580
driving his vehicle officer Cavett was

670
00:32:30,370 --> 00:32:28,550
in an army vehicle and Jesse Marcel was

671
00:32:40,060 --> 00:32:30,380
in his vehicle I believe I'm not

672
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:40,070
positive about not Jesse Marcel boy yes

673
00:32:47,140 --> 00:32:45,170
Mac Brazel Mac Brazel yeah I believe was

674
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:47,150
driving his vehicle but I'm not positive

675
00:32:55,570 --> 00:32:53,210
about that so they arrived okay

676
00:32:57,790 --> 00:32:55,580
thanks Stan he knows a lot more about it

677
00:33:00,610 --> 00:32:57,800
than I do he had was the original

678
00:33:03,730 --> 00:33:00,620
investigator on this and I have learned

679
00:33:06,820 --> 00:33:03,740
what I could from Stan and from reading

680
00:33:08,980 --> 00:33:06,830
several books on it but and I have

681
00:33:12,460 --> 00:33:08,990
written a little bit about it as well in

682
00:33:15,970 --> 00:33:12,470
some of our books but I am by no means

683
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:15,980
an expert but as the story goes they

684
00:33:23,989 --> 00:33:19,049
went back out to the

685
00:33:27,289 --> 00:33:23,999
the two army men spent the night in a

686
00:33:30,259 --> 00:33:27,299
little shack or house building at the

687
00:33:32,779 --> 00:33:30,269
ranch and then the next day they went

688
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:32,789
out to the area where the debris was

689
00:33:40,969 --> 00:33:36,559
they collected some of this to brief

690
00:33:47,139 --> 00:33:40,979
Jesse Marcel filled up his vehicle with

691
00:33:51,499 --> 00:33:47,149
it and he drove it back to buy his house

692
00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:51,509
before he went to the base and officer

693
00:34:00,949 --> 00:33:55,529
Cavett did the same but he did not stop

694
00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:00,959
at his house and then Jesse Marcel took

695
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:05,329
some of the remnants into his kitchen

696
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:08,490
laid it out on the floor in front of his

697
00:34:14,749 --> 00:34:12,089
wife and his 11 year old son and they

698
00:34:17,769 --> 00:34:14,759
had the opportunity to see it too

699
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:17,779
it was metallic pajama debris with

700
00:34:24,739 --> 00:34:20,639
properties unusual properties like

701
00:34:32,419 --> 00:34:24,749
memory metal fiber optics there were I

702
00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:32,429
beam fragments and also his son Rhett

703
00:34:37,339 --> 00:34:33,839
later wrote a book about it

704
00:34:39,889 --> 00:34:37,349
he became a medical doctor a flight

705
00:34:43,220 --> 00:34:39,899
surgeon and he wrote the book called the

706
00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:43,230
Roswell legacy about his father and

707
00:34:49,399 --> 00:34:46,049
about his memories of growing up in that

708
00:34:53,389 --> 00:34:49,409
family and what he saw when he was 11 an

709
00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:53,399
11 year old boy the story ended up being

710
00:34:59,710 --> 00:34:57,599
carried to the radio station and Stan

711
00:35:02,989 --> 00:34:59,720
would you like to pick up from there

712
00:35:07,099 --> 00:35:02,999
well yeah they made the announcement at

713
00:35:10,670 --> 00:35:07,109
the radio station and press the press

714
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:10,680
story went out from the base and it hit

715
00:35:15,950 --> 00:35:11,970
the wire service

716
00:35:19,279 --> 00:35:15,960
it went from Roswell to Albuquerque and

717
00:35:21,579 --> 00:35:19,289
then Albuquerque had access to the news

718
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:21,589
wire and I went all over the country

719
00:35:27,620 --> 00:35:25,440
probably as much bigness as anything

720
00:35:29,749 --> 00:35:27,630
else because of Kenneth Arnold's

721
00:35:31,830 --> 00:35:29,759
sighting two weeks before there were

722
00:35:35,070 --> 00:35:31,840
hundreds of sightings in that intervene

723
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:35,080
time pray so suddenly those are all of

724
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:37,690
things in the sky or near the ground but

725
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:42,400
suddenly one crashed wow we didn't know

726
00:35:48,090 --> 00:35:45,760
what it was but it didn't Jesse had seen

727
00:35:49,860 --> 00:35:48,100
crashed airplanes and there are certain

728
00:35:52,050 --> 00:35:49,870
things you expect to find in crash

729
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:52,060
airplanes first of all he makes a big

730
00:35:57,570 --> 00:35:54,130
hole in the ground a crater if you will

731
00:36:01,320 --> 00:35:57,580
when they go in second you find standard

732
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:01,330
stuff vacuum tubes little tag saying

733
00:36:08,700 --> 00:36:05,590
made in Oshkosh you know there's nothing

734
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:08,710
strange about airplane wreckage pieces

735
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:10,480
of metal from the parts of the airplane

736
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:12,730
and the equipment that's onboard but

737
00:36:18,150 --> 00:36:15,010
there wasn't anything like that that's

738
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:18,160
when when I talked to Jesse that was one

739
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:19,570
of the things he stressed there wasn't

740
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:23,170
anything conventional out there and he

741
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:25,930
suggested that there must have been a

742
00:36:31,590 --> 00:36:28,330
mid-air explosion for two reasons the

743
00:36:34,890 --> 00:36:31,600
wreckage covered such a large area he

744
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:34,900
had seemed crashed aircraft and second

745
00:36:41,790 --> 00:36:38,050
there was so much of it and it was so

746
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:41,800
different so right away that this wasn't

747
00:36:44,820 --> 00:36:43,690
something conventional but a gradually

748
00:36:45,450 --> 00:36:44,830
they thought well maybe it's something

749
00:36:50,670 --> 00:36:45,460
weird

750
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:50,680
Stan they didn't have mylar balloons

751
00:36:56,730 --> 00:36:54,370
those silver foil e-type balloons in

752
00:37:00,180 --> 00:36:56,740
that time frame did they they only had

753
00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:00,190
neoprene balloons so that couldn't

754
00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:04,510
possibly be mistaken for memory metal no

755
00:37:17,340 --> 00:37:14,210
well there were no engines I mean if

756
00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:17,350
there weren't things that you'd expected

757
00:37:24,510 --> 00:37:19,990
to find if it was an airplane certainly

758
00:37:28,050 --> 00:37:24,520
you know wings and tail and engines but

759
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:28,060
with a balloon where's all this

760
00:37:37,980 --> 00:37:31,050
lightweight metal coming from you know

761
00:37:39,870 --> 00:37:37,990
balloons I like one of the pieces of one

762
00:37:42,210 --> 00:37:39,880
of the things that shows up is a picture

763
00:37:44,490 --> 00:37:42,220
of general Ramey and Colonel Thomas

764
00:37:47,870 --> 00:37:44,500
Jefferson DuBose

765
00:37:52,590 --> 00:37:47,880
who was Raimi's assistant if you will

766
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:52,600
and they they were with the stuff and

767
00:37:56,580 --> 00:37:54,730
Raimi is holding a piece of paper in his

768
00:38:01,770 --> 00:37:56,590
hand because they were very good cameras

769
00:38:03,870 --> 00:38:01,780
a 4x5 press cameras you can read some of

770
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:03,880
the words and it looks like victims of

771
00:38:09,180 --> 00:38:07,210
the wreck and anybody ever hear of a

772
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:09,190
balloon and could be said to have

773
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:11,680
victims of the wreck you know that makes

774
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:12,850
no sense at all

775
00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:16,510
so there were tantalizing flings but

776
00:38:21,930 --> 00:38:18,670
remember the military took care of this

777
00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:21,940
within two days I mean the first days

778
00:38:26,940 --> 00:38:24,160
headline army captures flying saucer on

779
00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:26,950
ranch and Roswell region the next day

780
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:30,310
general empties Roswell foster end of it

781
00:38:38,130 --> 00:38:34,510
yes and everybody forgot about it yeah

782
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:38,140
until I got involved I hate to say how

783
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:41,770
long later 1978 for goodness sakes this

784
00:38:48,570 --> 00:38:46,320
happened in 1947 and I stumbled across

785
00:38:50,910 --> 00:38:48,580
you know I'm not going to say I was

786
00:38:52,650 --> 00:38:50,920
looking for stories about crash saucer

787
00:38:54,570 --> 00:38:52,660
not at all

788
00:38:56,850 --> 00:38:54,580
I might as well tell you how it happened

789
00:38:58,110 --> 00:38:56,860
I was in Baton Rouge Louisiana giving a

790
00:39:02,220 --> 00:38:58,120
lecture at Louisiana State University

791
00:39:03,870 --> 00:39:02,230
and earlier in the day I was brought by

792
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:03,880
some of the students to the big

793
00:39:07,980 --> 00:39:05,650
television station in town I was

794
00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:07,990
supposed to do three interviews and I

795
00:39:13,260 --> 00:39:10,390
done the first two and the third

796
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:13,270
reporter was nowhere to be seen so the

797
00:39:19,140 --> 00:39:15,370
station managers give me coffee he's

798
00:39:20,430 --> 00:39:19,150
talking to me and out of the blue he

799
00:39:24,510 --> 00:39:20,440
says you know the guy you ought to talk

800
00:39:28,670 --> 00:39:24,520
to is Jesse Marcel and being the great

801
00:39:32,490 --> 00:39:28,680
researcher I am I said who is he well

802
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:32,500
his claim to fame according to the

803
00:39:36,690 --> 00:39:34,720
television station guy was he found

804
00:39:38,190 --> 00:39:36,700
wreckage or one of those saucers you're

805
00:39:42,060 --> 00:39:38,200
interested in when he was in the

806
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:42,070
military that got my attention because

807
00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:44,290
he was being serious there was nobody

808
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,910
around he wasn't telling stories or

809
00:39:49,970 --> 00:39:47,680
anything like that and I said what do

810
00:39:52,020 --> 00:39:49,980
you know about him he lives in Houma

811
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:52,030
that didn't tell me a darn thing I

812
00:39:56,820 --> 00:39:53,890
didn't know where home it's one of the

813
00:39:57,930 --> 00:39:56,830
major cities in Louisiana but is it

814
00:40:01,859 --> 00:39:57,940
great guy rolled

815
00:40:05,940 --> 00:40:01,869
ham-radio buddies what are you going to

816
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:05,950
talk to him she's yeah just me being

817
00:40:13,140 --> 00:40:10,960
curious I guess and I so the next day I

818
00:40:15,059 --> 00:40:13,150
was busy that day and things went very

819
00:40:17,099 --> 00:40:15,069
well what encouraged me was things went

820
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:17,109
very well at the lecture that I gave at

821
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:19,359
LSU the next morning I was at the

822
00:40:23,339 --> 00:40:20,770
airport oh really I was going someplace

823
00:40:27,059 --> 00:40:23,349
else and I decide I gotta try to call

824
00:40:28,349 --> 00:40:27,069
that Jesse Marcel and you know surprised

825
00:40:30,089 --> 00:40:28,359
kids when I said I called information

826
00:40:31,620 --> 00:40:30,099
what do you mean didn't should look it

827
00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:31,630
up on your computer I didn't have a

828
00:40:39,690 --> 00:40:37,470
computer 78 you could talk to operators

829
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:39,700
which is nice because they know

830
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:41,170
something about the area you're talking

831
00:40:51,329 --> 00:40:45,760
about and I was looking for Jesse Marcel

832
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:51,339
and homo wherever it was and so there

833
00:40:55,710 --> 00:40:53,050
was a number for him I called him he

834
00:40:57,390 --> 00:40:55,720
told me a story and people say why did

835
00:40:58,140 --> 00:40:57,400
he talk to you I thought that was all

836
00:41:00,030 --> 00:40:58,150
classified

837
00:41:01,950 --> 00:41:00,040
I said well his name was in the

838
00:41:05,609 --> 00:41:01,960
newspapers his picture was in many

839
00:41:08,670 --> 00:41:05,619
newspapers around the world Chinese

840
00:41:11,220 --> 00:41:08,680
newspapers even had Jesse's picture and

841
00:41:12,990 --> 00:41:11,230
so that got me intrigued I was very

842
00:41:14,430 --> 00:41:13,000
impressed with Jesse probably because

843
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:14,440
I'm nuclear and this was the only

844
00:41:20,190 --> 00:41:17,530
nuclear that the debunkers always forget

845
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:20,200
to tell you this was the only group in

846
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:23,290
the world that had nuclear weapons at

847
00:41:30,050 --> 00:41:27,490
that time the first Soviet nuclear

848
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:30,060
weapon wasn't explode until 1949 this is

849
00:41:39,599 --> 00:41:34,810
1947 and it was exploded carried by the

850
00:41:41,370 --> 00:41:39,609
guys the 509 at Roswell so this wasn't

851
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:41,380
just a bunch of guys with nothing better

852
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:44,170
to do but make up stories they were the

853
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:47,410
first line of offense if you will as the

854
00:41:56,220 --> 00:41:51,310
Cold War were on that's what was our

855
00:41:58,079 --> 00:41:56,230
retaliatory place was Roswell the only

856
00:41:59,550 --> 00:41:58,089
atomic bombing group in the world they

857
00:42:02,130 --> 00:41:59,560
dropped the bombs in Hiroshima and

858
00:42:04,589 --> 00:42:02,140
Nagasaki and two more in operation

859
00:42:06,270 --> 00:42:04,599
crossroads so it's very important to

860
00:42:07,620 --> 00:42:06,280
realize we're not talking about Dinks

861
00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:07,630
with nothing better to do

862
00:42:11,650 --> 00:42:10,089
they had their fingers on the button as

863
00:42:16,510 --> 00:42:11,660
they'd like to say - hey

864
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:16,520
and so I really got hooked by Jesse and

865
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:21,680
his story and shared the story with bill

866
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:23,330
mortar researcher with whom I had worked

867
00:42:30,130 --> 00:42:27,200
before within the next year we found 62

868
00:42:31,810 --> 00:42:30,140
people connected with Roswell and of

869
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:31,820
course today the none of the original

870
00:42:39,130 --> 00:42:34,970
well although one original witnesses

871
00:42:41,980 --> 00:42:39,140
left a lot there were a lot of them but

872
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:41,990
it's 70 years later so we had to make

873
00:42:49,060 --> 00:42:46,130
hay while was sunshine yeah it's amazing

874
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:49,070
and I was speaking to Kevin Dee Randall

875
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:52,850
in the last podcast and we had mentioned

876
00:42:57,430 --> 00:42:55,450
the same thing about using telephones

877
00:42:59,290 --> 00:42:57,440
because I grew up through the 80s and

878
00:43:02,680 --> 00:42:59,300
90s I remember when you actually could

879
00:43:05,170 --> 00:43:02,690
speak to an operator and sometimes that

880
00:43:06,430 --> 00:43:05,180
was actually more efficient than trying

881
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:06,440
to use the internet because it was a

882
00:43:11,590 --> 00:43:09,410
more trusting time so you can call an

883
00:43:14,530 --> 00:43:11,600
area an operator or say oh that's Joe

884
00:43:16,540 --> 00:43:14,540
so-and-so down the street and you know

885
00:43:21,370 --> 00:43:16,550
you could you could get information that

886
00:43:23,740 --> 00:43:21,380
way so it was sometimes yeah well

887
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:23,750
they've worked and kept me busy in the

888
00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:25,520
next year after that incidentally after

889
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:28,270
those first 62 we found 30 more with

890
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:30,770
people who were at the basin to time and

891
00:43:34,270 --> 00:43:31,130
sport

892
00:43:36,850 --> 00:43:34,280
remember Roswell Army Airfield which

893
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:36,860
later became Walker Air Force Base was a

894
00:43:40,270 --> 00:43:38,960
major installation there were thousands

895
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:40,280
of people who worked there

896
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:43,310
they had big bombers ready to deliver

897
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:44,810
her atomic thoughts

898
00:43:49,690 --> 00:43:48,050
everybody had a security clearance it's

899
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:49,700
a very special place now I should say

900
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:52,400
something about Roswell it's in the

901
00:43:59,470 --> 00:43:56,450
middle of nowhere and that's important

902
00:44:01,180 --> 00:43:59,480
because that was one of the reasons it

903
00:44:04,690 --> 00:44:01,190
was there is that there were a lot of

904
00:44:06,580 --> 00:44:04,700
people around remember New Mexico was

905
00:44:09,310 --> 00:44:06,590
where the first atomic bomb was exploded

906
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:09,320
at Trinity site you certainly don't want

907
00:44:14,770 --> 00:44:12,770
people nearby then New Mexico was the

908
00:44:16,810 --> 00:44:14,780
place where white sands Muslim Rangers

909
00:44:18,010 --> 00:44:16,820
firing missiles all over the place again

910
00:44:21,070 --> 00:44:18,020
you don't want to have a lot of people

911
00:44:23,580 --> 00:44:21,080
around and you want to be able to keep

912
00:44:25,690 --> 00:44:23,590
your eyes open for Russian spies as well

913
00:44:27,550 --> 00:44:25,700
so

914
00:44:29,830 --> 00:44:27,560
Roswell is 200 miles from Amarillo

915
00:44:33,010 --> 00:44:29,840
totter mouth from Albuquerque Tiger

916
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:33,020
Moths from El Paso if you're there it's

917
00:44:39,100 --> 00:44:35,530
cuz you want to be there and I must say

918
00:44:41,620 --> 00:44:39,110
and we were there at the annual

919
00:44:45,250 --> 00:44:41,630
celebration the Roswell festival this

920
00:44:47,050 --> 00:44:45,260
past year over two hundred and four

921
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:47,060
thousand people visited the

922
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:48,650
International UFO Museum and Research

923
00:44:54,970 --> 00:44:52,010
Center in Roswell the populations of

924
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:54,980
cities about fifty thousand so you know

925
00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:56,810
it's the major tourist attraction in the

926
00:45:01,150 --> 00:44:58,880
whole state so and what was our

927
00:45:03,310 --> 00:45:01,160
population if do you recall you know in

928
00:45:06,670 --> 00:45:03,320
nineteen twenty five thousand twenty

929
00:45:09,790 --> 00:45:06,680
five thousand that's lost that's when

930
00:45:14,740 --> 00:45:09,800
the base was open back then it's no

931
00:45:16,210 --> 00:45:14,750
longer open it was in the military well

932
00:45:17,980 --> 00:45:16,220
you know it was closed for an

933
00:45:21,940 --> 00:45:17,990
interesting reason New Mexico didn't

934
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:21,950
vote for Lyndon Johnson in 1964 so he

935
00:45:30,570 --> 00:45:25,280
closed the lace and moved it to of all

936
00:45:38,110 --> 00:45:34,630
airfield are you saying that was a boost

937
00:45:39,580 --> 00:45:38,120
in I was totally a political move but

938
00:45:43,330 --> 00:45:39,590
who was more political than Lyndon

939
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:43,340
Johnson they had done it was a great

940
00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:45,170
place to have an airbase the German

941
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:46,910
pilots used to come over and fly there

942
00:45:51,370 --> 00:45:49,850
to there no mountains close by it's at

943
00:45:56,410 --> 00:45:51,380
high altitude the thirty five hundred

944
00:45:58,030 --> 00:45:56,420
feet and clear skies you know it's and

945
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:58,040
they've got a thirteen thousand foot

946
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:01,040
runway there which is very large believe

947
00:46:08,170 --> 00:46:04,880
me but Lyndon closed it tilt no one in

948
00:46:12,580 --> 00:46:08,180
fact that it's a funny part of the story

949
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:12,590
really uh and you know he was punishing

950
00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:14,570
New Mexico for not voting for him but

951
00:46:22,570 --> 00:46:18,560
that was Linden's way what you know the

952
00:46:26,050 --> 00:46:22,580
the base of the story of Roswell I had

953
00:46:28,330 --> 00:46:26,060
had a second an earlier attempt at

954
00:46:30,490 --> 00:46:28,340
finding out more I ran across a witness

955
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:30,500
who had had a great case and he said you

956
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:32,810
ought to talk to my mom so I did her

957
00:46:37,450 --> 00:46:35,510
name was Lydia sleppy she was based in

958
00:46:38,570 --> 00:46:37,460
Albuquerque and she did have a good

959
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:38,580
sighting and she's the

960
00:46:43,370 --> 00:46:41,040
first one who told me about there was a

961
00:46:45,050 --> 00:46:43,380
story from their radio affiliates he

962
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:45,060
worked at a radio station in Albuquerque

963
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:48,000
there Roswell affiliate she took the

964
00:46:54,380 --> 00:46:50,880
call from some arroz was saying that

965
00:46:57,410 --> 00:46:54,390
there had been a crash of a saucer and

966
00:46:59,090 --> 00:46:57,420
the military was carrying it away and

967
00:47:01,910 --> 00:46:59,100
when she started to put that out on the

968
00:47:04,370 --> 00:47:01,920
wire was interrupted supposedly and the

969
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,380
FBI said discontinue this story and she

970
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:06,480
asked the guy down in ron't row what

971
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:07,170
should I do

972
00:47:14,140 --> 00:47:11,490
discontinue it stopped it when the

973
00:47:17,300 --> 00:47:14,150
government spoke you listened back then

974
00:47:20,810 --> 00:47:17,310
yeah I mean and I guess maybe that

975
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:20,820
explains part of the psychology of not

976
00:47:25,970 --> 00:47:22,650
following up on this because it really

977
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:25,980
is a wonder because how many times has a

978
00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:29,760
newspaper legitimately put on the

979
00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:32,910
headline you know a UFO crash I would

980
00:47:38,180 --> 00:47:36,000
say since then maybe never

981
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:38,190
unless it's you know tabloid well there

982
00:47:46,430 --> 00:47:41,520
are a few others there was a crash in

983
00:47:49,430 --> 00:47:46,440
Aztec New Mexico did it make headline

984
00:47:51,380 --> 00:47:49,440
news I don't think so well it there were

985
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:51,390
stories but they weren't they didn't go

986
00:47:55,730 --> 00:47:52,890
around the country the way of the

987
00:48:04,730 --> 00:47:55,740
Roswell story did they put the kibosh on

988
00:48:06,980 --> 00:48:04,740
that very quickly since then but because

989
00:48:09,770 --> 00:48:06,990
it was a little bit sloppy in those

990
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:09,780
earlier days you know why why weren't

991
00:48:12,890 --> 00:48:11,370
there people just you know gnawing at

992
00:48:14,870 --> 00:48:12,900
the bit and fighting at the bit you know

993
00:48:16,970 --> 00:48:14,880
just trying things wait a minute how did

994
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:16,980
they backtrack on the story and you know

995
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:19,910
where are the Bulldog investigators then

996
00:48:30,170 --> 00:48:25,680
well until I got involved Bronto was

997
00:48:35,810 --> 00:48:30,180
mentioned I think twice in UFO

998
00:48:38,660 --> 00:48:35,820
literature between 47 and 78 it just

999
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:38,670
wasn't there was a one guy did a study

1000
00:48:46,910 --> 00:48:43,290
of the sightings of 1947 UFO sightings

1001
00:48:52,220 --> 00:48:46,920
and did all report on it for a nightcap

1002
00:48:57,319 --> 00:48:52,230
and there's one paragraph on Roswell and

1003
00:48:58,910 --> 00:48:57,329
dismisses it as a hoax that was it so

1004
00:49:00,980 --> 00:48:58,920
why would anybody else look for it you

1005
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:00,990
know and besides who wants to go to rise

1006
00:49:06,020 --> 00:49:03,839
well it's not in the middle of nowhere I

1007
00:49:07,550 --> 00:49:06,030
love going to Ross I Love New Mexico

1008
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:07,560
that's that's one of our favorite uh

1009
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:11,130
little vacation getaway well I like it

1010
00:49:16,579 --> 00:49:13,650
too I mean I grew up in New Jersey of

1011
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:16,589
course I'd like me to and I'm speaking

1012
00:49:24,099 --> 00:49:21,570
from New Jersey right now so yeah that

1013
00:49:27,980 --> 00:49:24,109
that wide-open space you know the the

1014
00:49:29,660 --> 00:49:27,990
sunrise is just it's so grounding at

1015
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:29,670
least for me coming from the Northeast

1016
00:49:32,170 --> 00:49:31,440
here and then living in New York and in

1017
00:49:34,579 --> 00:49:32,180
New Jersey

1018
00:49:37,450 --> 00:49:34,589
I'll tell you one time going into

1019
00:49:39,620 --> 00:49:37,460
Albuquerque the pilot on the plane said

1020
00:49:42,730 --> 00:49:39,630
the business I'm sorry folks the

1021
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:42,740
visibility is only a hundred miles today

1022
00:49:52,849 --> 00:49:49,680
you can't see ten miles in Jersey for

1023
00:49:56,420 --> 00:49:52,859
yourself when did you you know find out

1024
00:49:59,690 --> 00:49:56,430
about the Roswell incident and garner

1025
00:50:02,329 --> 00:49:59,700
your own interest in it I found out

1026
00:50:07,420 --> 00:50:02,339
about Roswell when I was a fan of

1027
00:50:10,940 --> 00:50:07,430
Stanton Friedman and was attending MUFON

1028
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:10,950
symposiums and Stanton spoke at the

1029
00:50:18,980 --> 00:50:14,250
MUFON symposium about the Roswell crash

1030
00:50:22,450 --> 00:50:18,990
and his investigation and showed some of

1031
00:50:26,599 --> 00:50:22,460
his evidence and I was immediately

1032
00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:26,609
enthralled with the idea of of this

1033
00:50:34,010 --> 00:50:29,609
crash that actually happened and was

1034
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:34,020
covered up by the government and one of

1035
00:50:41,890 --> 00:50:37,290
my favorite stories is what happened

1036
00:50:45,650 --> 00:50:41,900
when Jesse Marcel took this evidence

1037
00:50:50,210 --> 00:50:45,660
into general Rama's office at the 8th

1038
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:50,220
Air Force Office and Fort Worth and he

1039
00:50:55,370 --> 00:50:52,770
said that what he did is he laid the

1040
00:50:59,120 --> 00:50:55,380
samples that he had taken with him out

1041
00:51:01,819 --> 00:50:59,130
on Rama's desk and then he was taken up

1042
00:51:04,819 --> 00:51:01,829
to the map room and asked to point out

1043
00:51:05,790 --> 00:51:04,829
the location of where the debris was

1044
00:51:08,370 --> 00:51:05,800
found

1045
00:51:11,790 --> 00:51:08,380
and that when he returned to Rama's

1046
00:51:14,220 --> 00:51:11,800
office the debris was missing and it had

1047
00:51:17,580 --> 00:51:14,230
been replaced by a fallen weather

1048
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:17,590
balloon and then the photographer's came

1049
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:21,610
in and took photographs of this weather

1050
00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:24,250
balloon that was obviously a weather

1051
00:51:31,140 --> 00:51:28,240
balloon and that is what they used in

1052
00:51:31,830 --> 00:51:31,150
the newspaper articles as part of the

1053
00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:31,840
cover-up

1054
00:51:39,150 --> 00:51:34,630
it was pretty insulting to Jesse Marcel

1055
00:51:42,300 --> 00:51:39,160
to say that a man who had such a high

1056
00:51:47,490 --> 00:51:42,310
position lieutenant in in the Army Air

1057
00:51:54,090 --> 00:51:47,500
Force I mean sorry major that's correct

1058
00:51:58,530 --> 00:51:54,100
and who was responsible for these

1059
00:52:01,830 --> 00:51:58,540
nuclear weapons was not able to identify

1060
00:52:04,020 --> 00:52:01,840
a common weather balloon that was I

1061
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:04,030
can't imagine what he must have gone

1062
00:52:13,020 --> 00:52:08,650
through having to keep his mouth closed

1063
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:13,030
it was ordered and ordered and looked

1064
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:16,930
like an idiot to just look like an idiot

1065
00:52:23,250 --> 00:52:20,650
which he definitely was not but for the

1066
00:52:27,180 --> 00:52:23,260
higher cause right yes for the higher

1067
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:27,190
cause mm-hmm and you know oftentimes

1068
00:52:33,150 --> 00:52:30,400
skeptics will use Occam's razor as an

1069
00:52:35,820 --> 00:52:33,160
argument in other two explanations for

1070
00:52:37,770 --> 00:52:35,830
something the simpler one is usually the

1071
00:52:40,170 --> 00:52:37,780
better one and you know if I could

1072
00:52:42,270 --> 00:52:40,180
extrapolate that a little bit further it

1073
00:52:46,290 --> 00:52:42,280
seems to me you know following this over

1074
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:46,300
the past twenty something years that

1075
00:52:51,330 --> 00:52:48,720
that principle actually works and better

1076
00:52:54,450 --> 00:52:51,340
for the work stand that you've done and

1077
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:54,460
other ufologists because the skeptics

1078
00:52:59,610 --> 00:52:57,760
are trying so hard to come up with an

1079
00:53:02,580 --> 00:52:59,620
alternative explanation I mean they're

1080
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:02,590
really reaching often and you know

1081
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:06,400
contradicting themselves remember rule

1082
00:53:12,770 --> 00:53:08,770
number one for debunkers is don't bother

1083
00:53:15,090 --> 00:53:12,780
me with the facts my mind's made up

1084
00:53:19,710 --> 00:53:15,100
something that the skeptics tend to do

1085
00:53:22,109 --> 00:53:19,720
is they tend to use the cover story

1086
00:53:26,099 --> 00:53:22,119
the disinformation that is given to the

1087
00:53:30,030 --> 00:53:26,109
public as the real story so for example

1088
00:53:31,950 --> 00:53:30,040
Mac Brazel changed his story between the

1089
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:31,960
time he went in and made his first

1090
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:36,569
report and then made a second report

1091
00:53:44,690 --> 00:53:40,770
after he had been detained by the army

1092
00:53:47,579 --> 00:53:44,700
for a period of three or four days and

1093
00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:47,589
so they would use that second report

1094
00:53:56,010 --> 00:53:51,250
which was he was told that he needed to

1095
00:53:59,220 --> 00:53:56,020
say rather than the original truthful

1096
00:54:02,670 --> 00:53:59,230
report of what happened so over and over

1097
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:02,680
again the dis informants and you might

1098
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:05,050
call them debunkers but I say they put

1099
00:54:12,780 --> 00:54:07,210
the debunk into the story they don't

1100
00:54:15,569 --> 00:54:12,790
take it out and so they are they tend to

1101
00:54:19,770 --> 00:54:15,579
do that sort of thing they will quote

1102
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:19,780
the disinformation that has been put out

1103
00:54:24,599 --> 00:54:23,050
about any case well it sounds like it's

1104
00:54:25,859 --> 00:54:24,609
a scapegoat right did that way you just

1105
00:54:31,290 --> 00:54:25,869
you don't even have to make an argument

1106
00:54:32,700 --> 00:54:31,300
right yep I want to ask you this and we

1107
00:54:38,609 --> 00:54:32,710
only have a few minutes left for the the

1108
00:54:40,740 --> 00:54:38,619
next break I remember some years ago Air

1109
00:54:43,500 --> 00:54:40,750
Force lieutenant colonel Richard French

1110
00:54:45,870 --> 00:54:43,510
had come out and said hey I know what

1111
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:45,880
happened with the with the UFOs and why

1112
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:48,160
they crashed the first one was hit with

1113
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:50,050
an electromagnetic pulse from an

1114
00:54:54,270 --> 00:54:53,170
experimental Air Force craft and then

1115
00:54:56,579 --> 00:54:54,280
the second one I don't know how that

1116
00:54:59,400 --> 00:54:56,589
crashed the second one was like a rescue

1117
00:55:03,390 --> 00:54:59,410
craft to go in and rescue that the one

1118
00:55:06,599 --> 00:55:03,400
that that that crashed Stan where do you

1119
00:55:07,109 --> 00:55:06,609
fall on that well I found this total

1120
00:55:08,819 --> 00:55:07,119
baloney

1121
00:55:10,410 --> 00:55:08,829
look I've talked to people who were

1122
00:55:12,930 --> 00:55:10,420
there at the time they're dead now

1123
00:55:19,290 --> 00:55:12,940
incidentally I can't tell you who to

1124
00:55:20,940 --> 00:55:19,300
talk to but it's baloney I talked to

1125
00:55:22,109 --> 00:55:20,950
people who went out there I talked to

1126
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:22,119
Cabot

1127
00:55:27,420 --> 00:55:25,119
I talked to Jesse I talked to several

1128
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:27,430
other people at the base remember again

1129
00:55:34,099 --> 00:55:30,970
the people at the base were at the front

1130
00:55:37,319 --> 00:55:34,109
line of military capabilities

1131
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:37,329
Roswell was king they had atomic bombs

1132
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:41,760
nobody else had them at that time so

1133
00:55:51,319 --> 00:55:45,730
they were very concerned about not only

1134
00:55:56,430 --> 00:55:51,329
keeping their bombs safe so to speak but

1135
00:55:58,589 --> 00:55:56,440
making sure that no spies got there

1136
00:56:00,390 --> 00:55:58,599
remember we're not talking about a big

1137
00:56:05,579 --> 00:56:00,400
city area now we're talking about a very

1138
00:56:07,319 --> 00:56:05,589
small town and they had to be very clear

1139
00:56:09,870 --> 00:56:07,329
that there were no Russian spies getting

1140
00:56:11,039 --> 00:56:09,880
through you know we're on the second

1141
00:56:13,980 --> 00:56:11,049
break stand if you can told it right

1142
00:56:15,539 --> 00:56:13,990
there this is Alan B Smith host for

1143
00:56:18,059 --> 00:56:15,549
paranormal now on the inception radio

1144
00:56:25,850 --> 00:56:18,069
network and we will be right back after

1145
00:56:31,950 --> 00:56:29,600
[Music]

1146
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:31,960
welcome back to paranormal now this is

1147
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:33,760
Ellen B Smith I'm the inception radio

1148
00:56:38,940 --> 00:56:35,770
network and my guests tonight are

1149
00:56:40,500 --> 00:56:38,950
Stanton Friedman and Kathleen Martin

1150
00:56:45,900 --> 00:56:40,510
this is a fascinating conversation I'm

1151
00:56:47,850 --> 00:56:45,910
absolutely loving this and I'm sure you

1152
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:47,860
are too and we'll continue to do so over

1153
00:56:53,970 --> 00:56:51,490
the next hour here I'm taking us out of

1154
00:56:55,230 --> 00:56:53,980
the break was white flag by Dido it's

1155
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:55,240
one of my favorite songs I don't know it

1156
00:57:00,540 --> 00:56:56,970
just puts me in a nice contemplative

1157
00:57:03,060 --> 00:57:00,550
reflective state of mind which leads me

1158
00:57:05,940 --> 00:57:03,070
into something that actually Stanton had

1159
00:57:07,530 --> 00:57:05,950
brought up between the break he wanted

1160
00:57:11,510 --> 00:57:07,540
to you know discuss about what the

1161
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:11,520
significance of the Roswell UFO crash

1162
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:15,370
was or is and so Stan what know what's

1163
00:57:22,170 --> 00:57:18,250
your take on that well the big thing is

1164
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:22,180
that we suddenly had proof this wasn't

1165
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:24,490
the first sighting Kenneth Arnold's you

1166
00:57:28,380 --> 00:57:26,050
know made noises and we found out there

1167
00:57:33,090 --> 00:57:28,390
were lots of sightings but when you've

1168
00:57:35,700 --> 00:57:33,100
got wreckage and bodies you suddenly

1169
00:57:37,950 --> 00:57:35,710
realize that you're confronted with

1170
00:57:40,170 --> 00:57:37,960
something of enormous significance these

1171
00:57:42,930 --> 00:57:40,180
guys weren't from around here the

1172
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:42,940
vehicle certainly wasn't we didn't know

1173
00:57:51,450 --> 00:57:46,330
what they wanted they're near our

1174
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:51,460
nuclear weapons this is scary what does

1175
00:57:56,850 --> 00:57:53,770
this mean for mankind so they had to be

1176
00:58:01,500 --> 00:57:56,860
extremely careful about what information

1177
00:58:04,980 --> 00:58:01,510
they let out because there were some

1178
00:58:07,350 --> 00:58:04,990
people who know darn well a that there

1179
00:58:09,930 --> 00:58:07,360
may be horrible stuff in store for us

1180
00:58:14,580 --> 00:58:09,940
you know this is the first mission of a

1181
00:58:19,340 --> 00:58:14,590
bunch of bad guys if you will and it

1182
00:58:24,930 --> 00:58:19,350
might we have attracted the attention of

1183
00:58:27,870 --> 00:58:24,940
somebody else from out there and this is

1184
00:58:31,950 --> 00:58:27,880
a nuclear group the nuclear groups

1185
00:58:35,010 --> 00:58:31,960
realize that if you want to get to the

1186
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:35,020
stars nuclear is the way to go some

1187
00:58:39,390 --> 00:58:36,970
people think about chemical rockets and

1188
00:58:40,710 --> 00:58:39,400
pretty darn hard with a chemical rocket

1189
00:58:43,109 --> 00:58:40,720
to get to the stars

1190
00:58:45,060 --> 00:58:43,119
but I worked on fishing and future

1191
00:58:49,230 --> 00:58:45,070
propulsion systems a study of fusion

1192
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:49,240
back in 1962 and certainly in 47 the

1193
00:58:56,010 --> 00:58:52,090
atomic bombing group for the 500 ninth

1194
00:58:58,109 --> 00:58:56,020
at Roswell was well aware of the

1195
00:58:59,910 --> 00:58:58,119
enormous change in the amount of energy

1196
00:59:04,140 --> 00:58:59,920
you have available when you go from

1197
00:59:09,060 --> 00:59:04,150
chemical to nuclear to illustrate that a

1198
00:59:11,609 --> 00:59:09,070
big bomb in 1944 was a 10 ton

1199
00:59:15,450 --> 00:59:11,619
blockbuster at least the energy of 10

1200
00:59:18,930 --> 00:59:15,460
tons of dynamite one bomb took a big

1201
00:59:23,940 --> 00:59:18,940
b-29 to carry it well the first atomic

1202
00:59:28,050 --> 00:59:23,950
bomb the next year in 1945 about 16,000

1203
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:28,060
tons of dynamite and the first h-bomb

1204
00:59:37,740 --> 00:59:33,910
first fusion device 1950 to 10 million

1205
00:59:41,339 --> 00:59:37,750
tons of dynamite and later the Russians

1206
00:59:45,359 --> 00:59:41,349
set one off tsar bomba 57 million tons

1207
00:59:48,780 --> 00:59:45,369
of dynamite in one stinkin weapon so it

1208
00:59:51,540 --> 00:59:48,790
was clear to the military guys that

1209
00:59:55,230 --> 00:59:51,550
we've got a whole new ballgame here and

1210
00:59:58,829 --> 00:59:55,240
you know we got suckered in a way people

1211
01:00:04,710 --> 00:59:58,839
ask general the general who headed up

1212
01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:04,720
the atomic bombing program in 1948 how

1213
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:07,119
long before the Russians have their

1214
01:00:12,650 --> 01:00:10,810
nuclear bomb and he hemmed and hawed and

1215
01:00:14,550 --> 01:00:12,660
said well they didn't have the the

1216
01:00:16,589 --> 01:00:14,560
industrial development that we had

1217
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:16,599
they've been damaged by the war which we

1218
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:18,490
hadn't been and so forth he said it

1219
01:00:21,630 --> 01:00:19,690
should take them at least eight years

1220
01:00:25,290 --> 01:00:21,640
and besides they don't have a means for

1221
01:00:27,510 --> 01:00:25,300
transporting it the first atomic bomb

1222
01:00:32,550 --> 01:00:27,520
from the Russians was the next year in

1223
01:00:37,170 --> 01:00:32,560
1949 and they had taken one of our b-29s

1224
01:00:39,300 --> 01:00:37,180
which we had left there damaged and they

1225
01:00:44,450 --> 01:00:39,310
built a whole bunch of them like Chinese

1226
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:44,460
copies so the change in the situation

1227
01:00:49,770 --> 01:00:47,290
from you know nothing to worry about

1228
01:00:51,690 --> 01:00:49,780
folks it'll be years before and they

1229
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:51,700
they can't match us and so forth and

1230
01:00:58,440 --> 01:00:54,960
then suddenly holy cow

1231
01:01:00,990 --> 01:00:58,450
19:49 ah we didn't even have radar

1232
01:01:02,250 --> 01:01:01,000
around the United States to let us know

1233
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:02,260
when anybody was coming because the

1234
01:01:07,079 --> 01:01:03,490
Russians couldn't get here

1235
01:01:09,059 --> 01:01:07,089
what was it ravelin so there were things

1236
01:01:12,890 --> 01:01:09,069
going on in the background but certainly

1237
01:01:15,539 --> 01:01:12,900
with the roswall information and

1238
01:01:21,769 --> 01:01:15,549
remember there was an Aztec New Mexico

1239
01:01:25,109 --> 01:01:21,779
crashing 4748 sorry the very next year

1240
01:01:27,359 --> 01:01:25,119
suddenly there was this whole

1241
01:01:30,900 --> 01:01:27,369
compartment over here what are we doing

1242
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:30,910
about alien visitors what do they want

1243
01:01:35,940 --> 01:01:32,650
were they from are they going to work

1244
01:01:38,730 --> 01:01:35,950
with the Russians or the Chinese so that

1245
01:01:40,589 --> 01:01:38,740
was not public discussion that was on

1246
01:01:44,339 --> 01:01:40,599
the inner circle but there were people

1247
01:01:46,529 --> 01:01:44,349
worried about it that's for sure and so

1248
01:01:48,990 --> 01:01:46,539
that was one of the reasons for keeping

1249
01:01:51,260 --> 01:01:49,000
secret we didn't want to secure the heck

1250
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:51,270
out of people and we didn't have answers

1251
01:01:59,549 --> 01:01:56,890
so even to this day going down a rabbit

1252
01:02:01,049 --> 01:01:59,559
hole because once you even if you think

1253
01:02:02,819 --> 01:02:01,059
those are legitimate reasons once you

1254
01:02:07,260 --> 01:02:02,829
start on down the path of a cover-up

1255
01:02:09,210 --> 01:02:07,270
then how do you backtrack you don't you

1256
01:02:12,140 --> 01:02:09,220
don't who wants to admit they blow we've

1257
01:02:15,150 --> 01:02:12,150
only been lying for 70 years folks uh

1258
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:15,160
that puts anybody in power at jeopardy

1259
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:20,650
of being taken out of yeah and I think

1260
01:02:25,799 --> 01:02:24,210
you're right if I can say it you know

1261
01:02:29,329 --> 01:02:25,809
metaphysically speaking or

1262
01:02:31,950 --> 01:02:29,339
sociologically speaking there is a show

1263
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:31,960
Twin Peaks and the third season came out

1264
01:02:36,750 --> 01:02:34,210
this year on Showtime I don't know if

1265
01:02:39,029 --> 01:02:36,760
you're familiar with it but one of the

1266
01:02:41,430 --> 01:02:39,039
characters on this show is this evil

1267
01:02:43,950 --> 01:02:41,440
sort of demon type of character or

1268
01:02:46,019 --> 01:02:43,960
spirit and people argue on the show

1269
01:02:49,079 --> 01:02:46,029
whether it's just all allegory or you

1270
01:02:52,019 --> 01:02:49,089
know it's fantasy or whatever it is but

1271
01:02:57,500 --> 01:02:52,029
within this past season they showed the

1272
01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:57,510
origin of this evil spirit and it was

1273
01:03:04,079 --> 01:03:00,400
the lot the explosion of the first

1274
01:03:06,370 --> 01:03:04,089
atomic bomb and this is where he was

1275
01:03:07,930 --> 01:03:06,380
born he was born out of this moment

1276
01:03:12,540 --> 01:03:07,940
and it seems to me that it was a

1277
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:12,550
commentary on humankind's original sin

1278
01:03:20,740 --> 01:03:18,890
as a galactic species and yes right that

1279
01:03:23,170 --> 01:03:20,750
that sure we have our other religious

1280
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:23,180
stories for original sin etc but as a as

1281
01:03:27,070 --> 01:03:25,250
a galactic species as a planetary

1282
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:27,080
interplanetary species that was our

1283
01:03:32,230 --> 01:03:28,850
original sin and then we went out we

1284
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:32,240
were on lockdown I don't know if that's

1285
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:34,250
true or not but it is interesting that

1286
01:03:40,770 --> 01:03:36,170
it's right around that time when UFO

1287
01:03:44,230 --> 01:03:40,780
reports really spiked did you know that

1288
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:44,240
when Newt the nuclear bomb was being

1289
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:49,090
developed and there were nuclear

1290
01:03:57,100 --> 01:03:54,410
installations where UFOs were showing up

1291
01:03:59,910 --> 01:03:57,110
and the scientists were seeing the UFOs

1292
01:04:03,270 --> 01:03:59,920
around these nuclear installations and

1293
01:04:07,690 --> 01:04:03,280
originally they speculated that perhaps

1294
01:04:11,290 --> 01:04:07,700
they were a byproduct of the nuclear

1295
01:04:12,790 --> 01:04:11,300
process so that's that's was interesting

1296
01:04:20,050 --> 01:04:12,800
to me that they thought it was this

1297
01:04:21,100 --> 01:04:20,060
demon that came out yes and well you

1298
01:04:23,850 --> 01:04:21,110
know and that brings me back to a

1299
01:04:26,890 --> 01:04:23,860
question that you know I was touching on

1300
01:04:29,890 --> 01:04:26,900
before we went to the break Kathleen

1301
01:04:34,780 --> 01:04:29,900
what what do you think caused the the

1302
01:04:39,490 --> 01:04:34,790
UFO to crash and is that why that they

1303
01:04:42,070 --> 01:04:39,500
are more you know sort of looking for I

1304
01:04:46,090 --> 01:04:42,080
don't know secretive in their observance

1305
01:04:48,310 --> 01:04:46,100
of us you know more clandestine boy you

1306
01:04:53,020 --> 01:04:48,320
know I don't know I don't even have a

1307
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:53,030
speculation on what caused it to crash I

1308
01:04:58,150 --> 01:04:55,490
don't know if it had something to do

1309
01:05:02,680 --> 01:04:58,160
with the weather if it had something to

1310
01:05:06,820 --> 01:05:02,690
do with nuclear installations I have

1311
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:06,830
really don't have a speculation on that

1312
01:05:13,870 --> 01:05:10,370
I only know that there is considerable

1313
01:05:16,300 --> 01:05:13,880
evidence that something actually did

1314
01:05:20,249 --> 01:05:16,310
crash there that there were high

1315
01:05:24,249 --> 01:05:20,259
security measures at the foster ranch

1316
01:05:26,499 --> 01:05:24,259
where it did crash that unscheduled

1317
01:05:29,889 --> 01:05:26,509
flights were made to Roswell from

1318
01:05:33,669 --> 01:05:29,899
Washington DC from White Sands from

1319
01:05:37,599 --> 01:05:33,679
Kirtland in California and from Fort

1320
01:05:40,989 --> 01:05:37,609
Bliss so there there was a lot of

1321
01:05:43,809 --> 01:05:40,999
activity and why would all of this

1322
01:05:46,779 --> 01:05:43,819
activity be taking place in that time

1323
01:05:52,149 --> 01:05:46,789
frame if nothing had happened

1324
01:05:56,499 --> 01:05:52,159
or as the government later said that it

1325
01:05:59,649 --> 01:05:56,509
was a mogul balloon well a mogul balloon

1326
01:06:02,819 --> 01:05:59,659
was only a top-secret kind of spying

1327
01:06:06,459 --> 01:06:02,829
balloon it was made up of 23 neoprene

1328
01:06:08,709 --> 01:06:06,469
balloons to pick up sonic vibrations in

1329
01:06:14,529 --> 01:06:08,719
the atmosphere from distant nuclear

1330
01:06:17,709 --> 01:06:14,539
explosions 23 neoprene balloons landing

1331
01:06:20,799 --> 01:06:17,719
on the foster ranch would not have drawn

1332
01:06:23,999 --> 01:06:20,809
all of those officials from all of the

1333
01:06:26,799 --> 01:06:24,009
different areas that they came in from I

1334
01:06:29,589 --> 01:06:26,809
do have a speculation as to why it

1335
01:06:31,719 --> 01:06:29,599
crashed because there was another crash

1336
01:06:34,179 --> 01:06:31,729
at the same time over in the plains of

1337
01:06:36,929 --> 01:06:34,189
san agustin where the huge radio

1338
01:06:38,769 --> 01:06:36,939
telescope is these days in New Mexico I

1339
01:06:44,099 --> 01:06:38,779
think there might have been a mid-air

1340
01:06:48,269 --> 01:06:44,109
collision because one went was described

1341
01:06:51,039 --> 01:06:48,279
one that crashed on the ground with a

1342
01:06:56,439 --> 01:06:51,049
crack on the slide as if it had been

1343
01:06:59,219 --> 01:06:56,449
struck by something and if you look that

1344
01:07:02,679 --> 01:06:59,229
we know that there were a rocket tests

1345
01:07:08,579 --> 01:07:02,689
scheduled for the morning of the crash

1346
01:07:13,439 --> 01:07:08,589
and it may what means the radar was on

1347
01:07:18,939 --> 01:07:13,449
because we were tracking rockets and I

1348
01:07:22,839 --> 01:07:18,949
think we might suggest that if there

1349
01:07:24,939 --> 01:07:22,849
were two saucers flying together a pilot

1350
01:07:30,519 --> 01:07:24,949
knowing man we would call it that's the

1351
01:07:32,559 --> 01:07:30,529
way we did I if they turned the radar on

1352
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:32,569
or they crossed the radar being misses

1353
01:07:35,820 --> 01:07:33,010
on them

1354
01:07:39,930 --> 01:07:35,830
no we're selling to civilization around

1355
01:07:41,550 --> 01:07:39,940
there for miles and miles that they

1356
01:07:43,260 --> 01:07:41,560
might have zipped through the beam of

1357
01:07:45,780 --> 01:07:43,270
the radar it was a tracking Raider

1358
01:07:48,810 --> 01:07:45,790
wasn't going around you know round and

1359
01:07:50,700 --> 01:07:48,820
round to pick up to detect something

1360
01:07:55,820 --> 01:07:50,710
going by they knew what was going on

1361
01:07:58,320 --> 01:07:55,830
there was a rocket was being fired if

1362
01:08:02,060 --> 01:07:58,330
they ran into the radar beam it might

1363
01:08:05,310 --> 01:08:02,070
have discombobulated the infected the

1364
01:08:07,130 --> 01:08:05,320
guidance system the propulsion system

1365
01:08:12,270 --> 01:08:07,140
all it would take would be a momentary

1366
01:08:15,510 --> 01:08:12,280
glitch and whammo one hits the other

1367
01:08:18,749 --> 01:08:15,520
when I asked an Air Force general if you

1368
01:08:21,180 --> 01:08:18,759
have a mid-air collision is the damage

1369
01:08:24,780 --> 01:08:21,190
usually the same to the two aircraft and

1370
01:08:28,499 --> 01:08:24,790
he said no usually one makes it and one

1371
01:08:30,090 --> 01:08:28,509
doesn't so if we have an explosion and

1372
01:08:33,090 --> 01:08:30,100
Jesse Marcel in our first conversation

1373
01:08:35,519 --> 01:08:33,100
said they had he thought there had to be

1374
01:08:37,620 --> 01:08:35,529
a mid-air explosion because there was no

1375
01:08:41,610 --> 01:08:37,630
crater and because the wreckage was

1376
01:08:45,570 --> 01:08:41,620
spread out over such a wide area so if

1377
01:08:47,550 --> 01:08:45,580
you have a mid-air explosion there and

1378
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:47,560
the other one going the other way over

1379
01:08:53,070 --> 01:08:49,690
the plains of San Agustin and being

1380
01:08:55,380 --> 01:08:53,080
picked up that might explain it I'm not

1381
01:08:58,289 --> 01:08:55,390
guaranteeing that but it seems

1382
01:09:02,730 --> 01:08:58,299
reasonable under the circumstances there

1383
01:09:05,010 --> 01:09:02,740
well and so you know one one explanation

1384
01:09:08,990 --> 01:09:05,020
what we're talking about you know

1385
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:09,000
something that seems magical it seems

1386
01:09:14,220 --> 01:09:12,130
otherworldly that it can you know come

1387
01:09:18,660 --> 01:09:14,230
and go from distant star systems it can

1388
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:18,670
perform anti-gravity feats that are

1389
01:09:24,450 --> 01:09:21,850
seemingly unimaginable and yet if they

1390
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:24,460
are able to do all these things then

1391
01:09:35,420 --> 01:09:27,130
they are relying on the physics and

1392
01:09:41,099 --> 01:09:35,430
physics a real and unreal about this

1393
01:09:44,099 --> 01:09:41,109
look my one of my things that I lived by

1394
01:09:46,209 --> 01:09:44,109
is a technological progress comes from

1395
01:09:49,789 --> 01:09:46,219
doing things differently

1396
01:09:50,299 --> 01:09:49,799
unpredictable way I mean look at our own

1397
01:09:52,249 --> 01:09:50,309
history

1398
01:09:55,220 --> 01:09:52,259
Magellan took three years to go around

1399
01:09:56,950 --> 01:09:55,230
the world three years his ship did he

1400
01:10:01,640 --> 01:09:56,960
didn't make it

1401
01:10:05,390 --> 01:10:01,650
now the space station goes around 90

1402
01:10:09,799 --> 01:10:05,400
minutes but it isn't a fast sailing boat

1403
01:10:13,250 --> 01:10:09,809
it's entirely different you know so we

1404
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:13,260
shouldn't be surprised look at a slide

1405
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:14,880
where I use a slide rule when I started

1406
01:10:21,819 --> 01:10:18,090
work in industry it doesn't compare with

1407
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:25,580
no comparison whatsoever progress comes

1408
01:10:29,839 --> 01:10:27,199
from doing things differently so

1409
01:10:32,169 --> 01:10:29,849
somebody got started a little bit before

1410
01:10:35,209 --> 01:10:32,179
we did you know what's a million years

1411
01:10:36,649 --> 01:10:35,219
on their technological development we

1412
01:10:39,950 --> 01:10:36,659
would expect them to be able to do

1413
01:10:43,729 --> 01:10:39,960
things that we can't do there's no

1414
01:10:46,790 --> 01:10:43,739
surprise there we know it's I know it's

1415
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:46,800
speculation but you know I could imagine

1416
01:10:52,549 --> 01:10:49,170
that if they were visiting and keeping

1417
01:10:55,790 --> 01:10:52,559
an eye on us you know perhaps they did

1418
01:10:59,500 --> 01:10:55,800
not know everything about us and perhaps

1419
01:11:02,839 --> 01:10:59,510
they were taken a bit by surprise by

1420
01:11:04,700 --> 01:11:02,849
undirected radio wave I don't know but

1421
01:11:06,470 --> 01:11:04,710
it's certainly not out of the realm of

1422
01:11:09,350 --> 01:11:06,480
physical possibility if you're using

1423
01:11:13,310 --> 01:11:09,360
some sort of electromagnetic propulsion

1424
01:11:15,229 --> 01:11:13,320
system well even if you're not using an

1425
01:11:17,540 --> 01:11:15,239
electromagnetic propulsion system a

1426
01:11:20,899 --> 01:11:17,550
radar was new at a time there wasn't a

1427
01:11:24,290 --> 01:11:20,909
lot of radar around so they zipped

1428
01:11:27,290 --> 01:11:24,300
around the planet earth they might not

1429
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:27,300
have noticed any radar mm-hmm because it

1430
01:11:32,270 --> 01:11:30,570
wasn't much of it there think the

1431
01:11:33,890 --> 01:11:32,280
Roswell in other words are written that

1432
01:11:38,500 --> 01:11:33,900
Roswell but White Sands Missile Range

1433
01:11:43,010 --> 01:11:38,510
New Mexico did have radar installations

1434
01:11:45,649 --> 01:11:43,020
because we were firing missiles rockets

1435
01:11:47,810 --> 01:11:45,659
we had to keep track of them and my

1436
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:47,820
parent one of them went to Mexico that

1437
01:11:57,950 --> 01:11:51,690
wasn't supposed to went the wrong way

1438
01:11:59,270 --> 01:11:57,960
too bad but what we have to think in

1439
01:12:02,480 --> 01:11:59,280
terms of

1440
01:12:04,910 --> 01:12:02,490
New Mexico being a hotbed of military

1441
01:12:06,740 --> 01:12:04,920
research and development activities 2 of

1442
01:12:10,070 --> 01:12:06,750
the 3 nuclear weapons labs the United

1443
01:12:13,460 --> 01:12:10,080
States for in New Mexico Los Alamos and

1444
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:13,470
Sandia and so that's why you're worried

1445
01:12:18,620 --> 01:12:16,530
about spies there but it also means that

1446
01:12:19,970 --> 01:12:18,630
it's a place where you can test far out

1447
01:12:25,010 --> 01:12:19,980
stalkers there are many people around

1448
01:12:28,970 --> 01:12:25,020
the Mexico's the fifth least densely

1449
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:28,980
populated states of all 50 it ranks 5th

1450
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:34,410
of population not much in a way of

1451
01:12:43,570 --> 01:12:40,170
people might bit off topic but I am

1452
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:43,580
curious you know Binney and Barney Hill

1453
01:12:52,010 --> 01:12:47,730
Bennie Barney Hill did they ever you

1454
01:12:54,440 --> 01:12:52,020
know comment on I don't know if they

1455
01:12:57,710 --> 01:12:54,450
were aware to the degree that people are

1456
01:13:00,680 --> 01:12:57,720
now but were they aware the the Roswell

1457
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:00,690
incident and did they have any thoughts

1458
01:13:05,990 --> 01:13:04,890
on the matter Betty was aware of the

1459
01:13:09,710 --> 01:13:06,000
Roswell incident

1460
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:09,720
Barney died in 1969 at the age of 46 and

1461
01:13:17,450 --> 01:13:15,210
so this was before 1978 when Stanton

1462
01:13:20,330 --> 01:13:17,460
heard about Roswell and began his

1463
01:13:23,540 --> 01:13:20,340
research so Barney was not aware of it

1464
01:13:26,860 --> 01:13:23,550
but Betty was and Betty had a great deal

1465
01:13:31,330 --> 01:13:26,870
of admiration for Stanton Friedman and

1466
01:13:39,170 --> 01:13:31,340
followed his work and did believe that

1467
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:39,180
Roswell did have a UFO crash and I know

1468
01:13:45,710 --> 01:13:41,970
this again reaching but did she think

1469
01:13:50,750 --> 01:13:45,720
that perhaps they're the same beings

1470
01:13:53,300 --> 01:13:50,760
that you know abducted them well she

1471
01:13:56,710 --> 01:13:53,310
thought that they might have been but

1472
01:14:00,380 --> 01:13:56,720
the original sketches that were done

1473
01:14:04,610 --> 01:14:00,390
were a little bit different she didn't

1474
01:14:09,230 --> 01:14:04,620
remember like any little cups on the

1475
01:14:12,489 --> 01:14:09,240
ends of the fingers such as were drawn

1476
01:14:15,430 --> 01:14:12,499
by the alleged nurse who

1477
01:14:19,810 --> 01:14:15,440
had examined of the bodies and had drawn

1478
01:14:23,140 --> 01:14:19,820
sketches for Glenn Dennis from the

1479
01:14:24,850 --> 01:14:23,150
funeral home The Ballad funeral home so

1480
01:14:27,069 --> 01:14:24,860
they've seemed a little bit different

1481
01:14:29,830 --> 01:14:27,079
but they also had similar

1482
01:14:31,569 --> 01:14:29,840
characteristics so I think that she

1483
01:14:35,339 --> 01:14:31,579
believed they were probably from the

1484
01:14:38,399 --> 01:14:35,349
same family of non-human entities

1485
01:14:40,689 --> 01:14:38,409
Kathleen and Stan do you do you both

1486
01:14:47,799 --> 01:14:40,699
believe that there was one u.s. faux

1487
01:14:49,629 --> 01:14:47,809
crash in New Mexico well I think there

1488
01:14:54,339 --> 01:14:49,639
was one in Corona and one in the plains

1489
01:14:56,910 --> 01:14:54,349
of san agustin I think in other words

1490
01:14:59,529 --> 01:14:56,920
and then there was another one in Aztec

1491
01:15:03,209 --> 01:14:59,539
there's an excellent book the Aztec

1492
01:15:05,799 --> 01:15:03,219
incident by scott and suzanne ramsey

1493
01:15:07,739 --> 01:15:05,809
aztec is up in the northwest corner of

1494
01:15:10,450 --> 01:15:07,749
New Mexico near the Four Corners area

1495
01:15:13,029 --> 01:15:10,460
and that was just the next year but they

1496
01:15:15,069 --> 01:15:13,039
did a bang-up job on their research they

1497
01:15:18,910 --> 01:15:15,079
found witnesses and paperwork and all

1498
01:15:21,219 --> 01:15:18,920
kinds of goodies so you know where

1499
01:15:24,879 --> 01:15:21,229
there's one there's more and that's why

1500
01:15:28,330 --> 01:15:24,889
I mentioned the the mid-air collision is

1501
01:15:31,419 --> 01:15:28,340
that two went down at the same time so

1502
01:15:33,870 --> 01:15:31,429
that's one possibility especially after

1503
01:15:36,850 --> 01:15:33,880
the general told me that usually the

1504
01:15:37,930 --> 01:15:36,860
damage isn't symmetric that is one makes

1505
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:37,940
it and one doesn't

1506
01:15:48,910 --> 01:15:44,090
well it's Roswell over that way I think

1507
01:15:51,609 --> 01:15:48,920
I have favored the speculation that one

1508
01:15:56,620 --> 01:15:51,619
sort of exploded over the foster ranch

1509
01:16:00,729 --> 01:15:56,630
and might have touched the ground and

1510
01:16:03,549 --> 01:16:00,739
then like a saucer or a stone skipping

1511
01:16:07,569 --> 01:16:03,559
across water it became airborne again

1512
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:07,579
and then ended up crashing at the second

1513
01:16:16,209 --> 01:16:13,010
site interesting okay you know either of

1514
01:16:21,009 --> 01:16:16,219
these one or two crashes whatever they

1515
01:16:23,620 --> 01:16:21,019
are were there actual alien beings yeah

1516
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:23,630
yes inside them okay

1517
01:16:32,860 --> 01:16:29,810
and I recently did they all died four

1518
01:16:34,810 --> 01:16:32,870
out of five were dead apparently mm-hmm

1519
01:16:36,899 --> 01:16:34,820
and those were supposed to be in just

1520
01:16:39,459 --> 01:16:36,909
one craft correct

1521
01:16:41,229 --> 01:16:39,469
well yeah whether there were ones over

1522
01:16:44,260 --> 01:16:41,239
in the plains of San Agustin where the

1523
01:16:47,229 --> 01:16:44,270
second crash who as we think so we're

1524
01:16:50,140 --> 01:16:47,239
told that there were but because I heard

1525
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:50,150
about them the bodies out lecturing

1526
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:52,010
again and somebody's age ever hear

1527
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:53,570
anything about a crashed saucer in New

1528
01:17:02,560 --> 01:16:58,010
Mexico and I said well yes I have tell

1529
01:17:04,810 --> 01:17:02,570
me more and he told me about his friend

1530
01:17:09,550 --> 01:17:04,820
Barney Barnett over in the plains of san

1531
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:09,560
agustin it was a federal officer and the

1532
01:17:17,229 --> 01:17:11,449
crash over there and there were bodies

1533
01:17:21,189 --> 01:17:17,239
there he saw them it talked about him it

1534
01:17:23,260 --> 01:17:21,199
didn't make it into the press yes and

1535
01:17:26,169 --> 01:17:23,270
and you think how many bodies do you

1536
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:26,179
agree with with with stanza assessment

1537
01:17:32,410 --> 01:17:29,330
oh yes I think there were probably about

1538
01:17:34,899 --> 01:17:32,420
four or five bodies from from what I've

1539
01:17:37,540 --> 01:17:34,909
heard and I recently talked to a woman

1540
01:17:40,930 --> 01:17:37,550
who told me that her grandmother in law

1541
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:40,940
had worked at the Pentagon and was

1542
01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:43,730
called to white sands after the crash

1543
01:17:52,540 --> 01:17:48,320
and went into a hangar there and saw

1544
01:17:54,970 --> 01:17:52,550
these small emaciated white bodies in

1545
01:17:58,060 --> 01:17:54,980
the hangar and she said that initially

1546
01:18:00,700 --> 01:17:58,070
they were trying to identify what they

1547
01:18:03,729 --> 01:18:00,710
actually were because they had never

1548
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:03,739
seen anything like that before I said to

1549
01:18:09,669 --> 01:18:06,650
her I want to talk to your grandmother

1550
01:18:12,430 --> 01:18:09,679
in law and she said unfortunately she

1551
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:12,440
had passed away so that's just another

1552
01:18:19,300 --> 01:18:16,010
story you I've heard many of people who

1553
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:19,310
claim to have been I witnesses to not

1554
01:18:27,490 --> 01:18:24,290
only the crash but the bodies still I

1555
01:18:29,620 --> 01:18:27,500
should stress that people who had

1556
01:18:32,590 --> 01:18:29,630
security clearances and so forth at that

1557
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:32,600
time took their security oaths very

1558
01:18:37,220 --> 01:18:35,090
seriously because they knew the penalty

1559
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:37,230
for speaking out of turn

1560
01:18:42,620 --> 01:18:40,170
was very severe it could be death it

1561
01:18:44,420 --> 01:18:42,630
could be life imprisonment loss of all

1562
01:18:47,860 --> 01:18:44,430
future benefits and veterans worried

1563
01:18:51,410 --> 01:18:47,870
about that sort of thing people took

1564
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:51,420
security very seriously back then and

1565
01:18:57,290 --> 01:18:53,850
they knew about the Russian spies during

1566
01:18:59,210 --> 01:18:57,300
the war and and so it wasn't an

1567
01:19:00,470 --> 01:18:59,220
unrealistic thought that somebody's

1568
01:19:03,470 --> 01:19:00,480
trying to figure out what we're doing

1569
01:19:08,330 --> 01:19:03,480
here for at the peak of technological

1570
01:19:09,740 --> 01:19:08,340
advancement so people today an average

1571
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:09,750
Joe Blow may not think much about

1572
01:19:17,810 --> 01:19:15,330
security but back then believe me they

1573
01:19:20,390 --> 01:19:17,820
did think a great deal about security

1574
01:19:21,860 --> 01:19:20,400
and keeping your mouth shut well with

1575
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:21,870
both of you the amount of research that

1576
01:19:28,190 --> 01:19:23,370
you've done you've certainly covered

1577
01:19:31,070 --> 01:19:28,200
your share of the spook world and I do

1578
01:19:37,300 --> 01:19:31,080
wonder in that time period because of

1579
01:19:41,810 --> 01:19:37,310
World War two were we far more refined

1580
01:19:46,970 --> 01:19:41,820
in our abilities in international spying

1581
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:46,980
and less refined in our abilities to

1582
01:19:51,950 --> 01:19:50,610
keep our own secrets from ourselves was

1583
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:51,960
there was there a little bit more of a

1584
01:19:58,610 --> 01:19:55,650
trust factor between you know fellow US

1585
01:19:59,270 --> 01:19:58,620
citizens and and do you get I don't

1586
01:20:02,030 --> 01:19:59,280
think so

1587
01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:02,040
okay I I think it was loose lips sink

1588
01:20:08,330 --> 01:20:04,250
ships I remember that from World War two

1589
01:20:10,820 --> 01:20:08,340
there was great stress on keeping you

1590
01:20:13,630 --> 01:20:10,830
know you couldn't talk about where your

1591
01:20:16,220 --> 01:20:13,640
relatives were who were overseas mm-hmm

1592
01:20:18,410 --> 01:20:16,230
that they didn't want the Germans to

1593
01:20:20,930 --> 01:20:18,420
know about troop movements for example

1594
01:20:22,190 --> 01:20:20,940
and they were very good you know one of

1595
01:20:24,470 --> 01:20:22,200
the things about when they dropped the

1596
01:20:26,510 --> 01:20:24,480
first atomic bomb they wanted to make

1597
01:20:28,610 --> 01:20:26,520
sure nobody knew where they were going

1598
01:20:30,050 --> 01:20:28,620
to drop it because they were fearful at

1599
01:20:32,540 --> 01:20:30,060
the Japanese would move American

1600
01:20:36,500 --> 01:20:32,550
prisoners of war to that city go ahead

1601
01:20:39,620 --> 01:20:36,510
you know if they found out where what

1602
01:20:43,090 --> 01:20:39,630
city would be targeted so I think and

1603
01:20:47,660 --> 01:20:43,100
everybody much more so than than now

1604
01:20:50,839 --> 01:20:47,670
everybody had a family relative who was

1605
01:20:53,449 --> 01:20:50,849
in the military and who

1606
01:20:55,250 --> 01:20:53,459
would read them the riot act about it

1607
01:20:59,270 --> 01:20:55,260
can't talk about this can't talk about

1608
01:21:02,509 --> 01:20:59,280
that and everywhere you turn there may

1609
01:21:05,929 --> 01:21:02,519
be spies it it was built into the system

1610
01:21:10,310 --> 01:21:05,939
at that time especially after we found

1611
01:21:12,770 --> 01:21:10,320
out that the Russians had spies in mixed

1612
01:21:16,129 --> 01:21:12,780
up with the nuclear business remember

1613
01:21:21,049 --> 01:21:16,139
there were two the Rosenbergs man and a

1614
01:21:25,699 --> 01:21:21,059
woman were executed for being spot was

1615
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:25,709
big news oh yeah I mean that was a huge

1616
01:21:31,790 --> 01:21:28,530
part of our education I don't know about

1617
01:21:35,209 --> 01:21:31,800
now but I remember we specifically spent

1618
01:21:36,379 --> 01:21:35,219
quite a bit of time on that and you know

1619
01:21:41,659 --> 01:21:36,389
by the time you come out of that lesson

1620
01:21:44,209 --> 01:21:41,669
you know do you fear you know that

1621
01:21:50,179 --> 01:21:44,219
you're not supposed to you know break

1622
01:21:51,889 --> 01:21:50,189
that sanctity and consequences I'm sorry

1623
01:21:55,699 --> 01:21:51,899
Katherine you're gonna say something and

1624
01:21:58,189 --> 01:21:55,709
not only that but I was let me give an

1625
01:22:00,469 --> 01:21:58,199
example I was having a conversation with

1626
01:22:04,549 --> 01:22:00,479
a man who was a retired Air Force

1627
01:22:07,729 --> 01:22:04,559
officer and he gave me some information

1628
01:22:13,009 --> 01:22:07,739
about the Air Force's knowledge of UFOs

1629
01:22:15,679 --> 01:22:13,019
and I said to him would you please put

1630
01:22:19,580 --> 01:22:15,689
that in writing for me and he said no

1631
01:22:23,330 --> 01:22:19,590
and I said will you put it in writing

1632
01:22:27,979 --> 01:22:23,340
and keep it in a safe deposit box that I

1633
01:22:31,580 --> 01:22:27,989
will have access to after you pass and

1634
01:22:35,419 --> 01:22:31,590
he said no and I said why and he said

1635
01:22:39,290 --> 01:22:35,429
it's a Manor a matter of Honor and a

1636
01:22:43,310 --> 01:22:39,300
matter of loyalty to my country he said

1637
01:22:46,069 --> 01:22:43,320
not only that but to all of the men that

1638
01:22:49,909 --> 01:22:46,079
I served with and to my family

1639
01:22:53,239 --> 01:22:49,919
those were his words and that carries a

1640
01:22:57,199 --> 01:22:53,249
lot of weight and I think you did touch

1641
01:22:58,939 --> 01:22:57,209
on a point stand as well someone in my

1642
01:23:00,169 --> 01:22:58,949
family who's in the military had you

1643
01:23:01,910 --> 01:23:00,179
know posted something on Facebook about

1644
01:23:03,470 --> 01:23:01,920
this as an article and

1645
01:23:07,700 --> 01:23:03,480
and I think it was a very good point

1646
01:23:10,070 --> 01:23:07,710
that you the military that we have now

1647
01:23:12,350 --> 01:23:10,080
the people who serve it's very a large

1648
01:23:15,500 --> 01:23:12,360
portion of that it's our part of a

1649
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:15,510
military family continuum and so you

1650
01:23:21,229 --> 01:23:17,489
have a large number of the population

1651
01:23:25,970 --> 01:23:21,239
that are not concerned as in the same

1652
01:23:30,410 --> 01:23:25,980
way when we go to war or when you know

1653
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:30,420
we hear about someone you know spilling

1654
01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:34,170
secrets the gravity of that does not

1655
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:36,480
weigh on on you as much on your father

1656
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:40,130
or your brother you know or your

1657
01:23:46,610 --> 01:23:43,440
sister-in-law are involved in you know

1658
01:23:53,540 --> 01:23:46,620
in combat and action and service to the

1659
01:23:55,930 --> 01:23:53,550
country so I do wonder you know how much

1660
01:23:59,060 --> 01:23:55,940
of a clamp can they keep down on this

1661
01:24:01,340 --> 01:23:59,070
until we get another Snowden who blows

1662
01:24:02,990 --> 01:24:01,350
it open or is it impossible we'll pick

1663
01:24:04,610 --> 01:24:03,000
it up when we get back after this last

1664
01:24:06,709 --> 01:24:04,620
break this is Alan B Smith on the

1665
01:24:08,330 --> 01:24:06,719
inception of radio network I'm talking

1666
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:08,340
with Stanton Friedman and Kathleen

1667
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:12,490
Martin hang in there we'll be right back

1668
01:24:22,509 --> 01:24:19,839
and welcome back to paranormal now this

1669
01:24:25,449 --> 01:24:22,519
is Alan V Smith your host tonight I have

1670
01:24:28,149 --> 01:24:25,459
two amazing guests this conversation has

1671
01:24:29,859 --> 01:24:28,159
been fascinating and we've we've gone

1672
01:24:32,619 --> 01:24:29,869
down so many paths along the way

1673
01:24:33,939 --> 01:24:32,629
starting with Roswell New Mexico but

1674
01:24:37,029 --> 01:24:33,949
again like we've we've covered these

1675
01:24:38,909 --> 01:24:37,039
subjects so many times it's not just a

1676
01:24:42,009 --> 01:24:38,919
linear story with any of these topics

1677
01:24:45,089 --> 01:24:42,019
there are so many overlapping factors

1678
01:24:48,250 --> 01:24:45,099
that play a part in you know what

1679
01:24:53,409 --> 01:24:48,260
ostensibly was a cover-up of a UFO crash

1680
01:24:56,319 --> 01:24:53,419
and and I had you know left us you know

1681
01:25:02,259 --> 01:24:56,329
often the last segment with the thought

1682
01:25:06,009 --> 01:25:02,269
of our citizens not taking seriously the

1683
01:25:08,799 --> 01:25:06,019
sanctity of an oath and being in service

1684
01:25:13,330 --> 01:25:08,809
to the country because they don't have a

1685
01:25:16,719 --> 01:25:13,340
direct emotional experience to those who

1686
01:25:19,449 --> 01:25:16,729
have to put their lives on the line in

1687
01:25:21,100 --> 01:25:19,459
service of the country and what are the

1688
01:25:24,909 --> 01:25:21,110
consequences of that do we get more

1689
01:25:29,589 --> 01:25:24,919
Edward Snowden's Kathleen what do you

1690
01:25:33,810 --> 01:25:29,599
think boy

1691
01:25:40,649 --> 01:25:36,250
that's because I'm older and I was

1692
01:25:46,750 --> 01:25:44,619
now I I think that what you say is true

1693
01:25:49,089 --> 01:25:46,760
that is that there are a much smaller

1694
01:25:52,540 --> 01:25:49,099
segment of the population that's aware

1695
01:25:54,609 --> 01:25:52,550
of the necessity of keeping secrets and

1696
01:25:58,989 --> 01:25:54,619
the loose lips sink ships kind of

1697
01:26:03,939 --> 01:25:58,999
attitude and also about Russian spies

1698
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:03,949
other spies I think that in our everyday

1699
01:26:09,879 --> 01:26:06,050
life most of us don't have to worry

1700
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:09,889
about this and we aren't spending the

1701
01:26:15,189 --> 01:26:12,010
huge amounts of money on developing new

1702
01:26:17,409 --> 01:26:15,199
classified technology which leads to

1703
01:26:19,989 --> 01:26:17,419
keeping secrets you know all over the

1704
01:26:22,119 --> 01:26:19,999
place so I think that we pay much less

1705
01:26:24,549 --> 01:26:22,129
attention to it now I think the

1706
01:26:26,409 --> 01:26:24,559
government is very concerned because

1707
01:26:27,130 --> 01:26:26,419
they know that there are Russian spies

1708
01:26:31,480 --> 01:26:27,140
in China

1709
01:26:33,820 --> 01:26:31,490
spies and they know that if our enemies

1710
01:26:38,350 --> 01:26:33,830
get ahold of the technology we've

1711
01:26:40,210 --> 01:26:38,360
development developed they may be ahead

1712
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:40,220
of us if they have what they have on

1713
01:26:47,950 --> 01:26:45,170
what we have so it's very important from

1714
01:26:51,970 --> 01:26:47,960
a serious viewpoint about national

1715
01:26:54,130 --> 01:26:51,980
security that we not let information out

1716
01:26:56,830 --> 01:26:54,140
about the newest the latest the best

1717
01:26:59,470 --> 01:26:56,840
development and even what we've learned

1718
01:27:02,550 --> 01:26:59,480
about what they have learned you know

1719
01:27:07,420 --> 01:27:02,560
what we've learned from Russian stuff

1720
01:27:11,290 --> 01:27:07,430
you can't put that out in the open so I

1721
01:27:13,810 --> 01:27:11,300
I think many people just don't even

1722
01:27:16,690 --> 01:27:13,820
think in terms of national security as

1723
01:27:19,390 --> 01:27:16,700
something they're concerned with but the

1724
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:19,400
people who have to take it very very

1725
01:27:26,260 --> 01:27:23,840
seriously well I have seen in recent

1726
01:27:30,910 --> 01:27:26,270
days you know leaking is seems to be

1727
01:27:34,300 --> 01:27:30,920
common please well I don't know about

1728
01:27:36,790 --> 01:27:34,310
any hot spot military secrets that are

1729
01:27:39,550 --> 01:27:36,800
being leaked it depends upon the type of

1730
01:27:43,030 --> 01:27:39,560
information that's being leaked and as

1731
01:27:45,700 --> 01:27:43,040
I'm thinking about this back in in that

1732
01:27:50,530 --> 01:27:45,710
timeframe of the the Roswell crash in

1733
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:50,540
the late 40s the early 50s I think that

1734
01:27:57,580 --> 01:27:54,650
people had a different attitude there

1735
01:28:00,670 --> 01:27:57,590
was a lot of loyalty toward the country

1736
01:28:04,990 --> 01:28:00,680
and it was my country right or wrong and

1737
01:28:07,210 --> 01:28:05,000
then since then we have had a lot of

1738
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:07,220
problems in the federal government where

1739
01:28:15,850 --> 01:28:12,170
for example of Richard Nixon with with

1740
01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:15,860
Watergate and and I think that it was

1741
01:28:21,010 --> 01:28:18,050
very disappointing to the public because

1742
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:21,020
we were beginning to perceive our

1743
01:28:28,750 --> 01:28:24,170
government in a different light we had

1744
01:28:32,230 --> 01:28:28,760
the Vietnam War and we knew about all of

1745
01:28:35,710 --> 01:28:32,240
the illegal and unethical activities

1746
01:28:37,480 --> 01:28:35,720
that our government was and and

1747
01:28:41,190 --> 01:28:37,490
particularly the President of the United

1748
01:28:43,980 --> 01:28:41,200
States was perpetrating two

1749
01:28:46,890 --> 01:28:43,990
that war going when it shouldn't have

1750
01:28:52,050 --> 01:28:46,900
been and I even learned that this that

1751
01:28:58,140 --> 01:28:52,060
Hoshi men had originally wanted to

1752
01:29:01,080 --> 01:28:58,150
establish a democracy in Vietnam and the

1753
01:29:03,870 --> 01:29:01,090
letter was given to the CIA the CIA

1754
01:29:07,590 --> 01:29:03,880
never delivered it to President

1755
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:07,600
Eisenhower so that sort of thing took

1756
01:29:13,890 --> 01:29:10,650
place there there is a lot of

1757
01:29:16,770 --> 01:29:13,900
disappointment I think in our government

1758
01:29:19,620 --> 01:29:16,780
and unethical behavior in our government

1759
01:29:23,190 --> 01:29:19,630
and I don't know that we were aware of

1760
01:29:29,610 --> 01:29:23,200
that sort of thing back in the 1940s

1761
01:29:38,180 --> 01:29:29,620
when Stanton was what a 16 year old boy

1762
01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:41,550
well I I think what Cathy says is true

1763
01:29:53,310 --> 01:29:48,600
sociological realm so to speak at the

1764
01:29:57,330 --> 01:29:53,320
time I remember people working in war

1765
01:30:00,030 --> 01:29:57,340
industries and remember second world war

1766
01:30:03,330 --> 01:30:00,040
taught us a lot of less lessons one of

1767
01:30:06,630 --> 01:30:03,340
them was there was rationing you didn't

1768
01:30:10,950 --> 01:30:06,640
have access to butter and all kinds of

1769
01:30:13,650 --> 01:30:10,960
other things meat only certain days and

1770
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:13,660
so forth and so on this was all but we

1771
01:30:18,060 --> 01:30:15,370
had to have an attitude that we were all

1772
01:30:19,590 --> 01:30:18,070
in this together that was the thing

1773
01:30:22,620 --> 01:30:19,600
about rationing it didn't matter who you

1774
01:30:25,830 --> 01:30:22,630
were how much money I had there were

1775
01:30:29,460 --> 01:30:25,840
certain rules things that you had to

1776
01:30:31,470 --> 01:30:29,470
keep track of and certainly on the

1777
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:31,480
keeping secrets was a was a part of that

1778
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:34,810
story and everybody knew that I've had

1779
01:30:39,810 --> 01:30:37,650
people tell me that surely those guys

1780
01:30:41,790 --> 01:30:39,820
Roswell or whatever would have told

1781
01:30:43,770 --> 01:30:41,800
their wives what they were doing I wrote

1782
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:43,780
a book about operation majestic 12 you

1783
01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:46,890
know people keep incredible secrets and

1784
01:30:52,110 --> 01:30:49,330
you never I'd never told my wife

1785
01:30:54,870 --> 01:30:52,120
anything classified I wouldn't think of

1786
01:30:57,030 --> 01:30:54,880
doing that strong penalties

1787
01:30:58,290 --> 01:30:57,040
but I recognize that it would be stupid

1788
01:31:00,209 --> 01:30:58,300
to do that

1789
01:31:01,350 --> 01:31:00,219
you don't know where the spies are and

1790
01:31:03,390 --> 01:31:01,360
you don't know where your wife is gonna

1791
01:31:06,959 --> 01:31:03,400
say what to whom under what

1792
01:31:09,419 --> 01:31:06,969
circumstances so it gets pounded into

1793
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:09,429
you hi I was made a courier to carry my

1794
01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:11,770
own classified slides because they

1795
01:31:15,450 --> 01:31:13,449
weren't ready in time for the regular

1796
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:15,460
courier I was giving a classified

1797
01:31:23,310 --> 01:31:19,090
lecture a radiation shielding for

1798
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:23,320
nuclear airplanes but anyway and they

1799
01:31:28,110 --> 01:31:25,090
made me a courier and they sat me down

1800
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:28,120
and I was so glad to get rid of those

1801
01:31:32,459 --> 01:31:29,770
slides I mean they stressed if the plane

1802
01:31:34,620 --> 01:31:32,469
crashes they wanted my tin ireri if the

1803
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:34,630
plane crashes we don't care about you we

1804
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:36,850
want to recover this classified material

1805
01:31:41,550 --> 01:31:39,370
so we need your detailed itinerary and

1806
01:31:44,850 --> 01:31:41,560
this stuff doesn't go in the trunk of

1807
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:44,860
your car the slides no they gotta be

1808
01:31:50,399 --> 01:31:48,610
with you on your person and I was so

1809
01:31:52,399 --> 01:31:50,409
glad to get rid of that stuff

1810
01:31:54,660 --> 01:31:52,409
because they really make it sound like

1811
01:31:57,090 --> 01:31:54,670
so I'm going to paying attention and you

1812
01:32:00,899 --> 01:31:57,100
better do the job properly or you're in

1813
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:00,909
deep trouble look if you left something

1814
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:02,770
classified out on your desk in a

1815
01:32:09,300 --> 01:32:05,170
classified facility guards at the door

1816
01:32:12,090 --> 01:32:09,310
no access to anybody from the outside if

1817
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:12,100
you left a report a planned report out

1818
01:32:16,830 --> 01:32:14,650
on your desk the guards went around

1819
01:32:19,709 --> 01:32:16,840
every night and you'd get a call at

1820
01:32:21,390 --> 01:32:19,719
10:30 or 11:00 at night you left some

1821
01:32:27,450 --> 01:32:21,400
classified material you come in and

1822
01:32:30,270 --> 01:32:27,460
inventory all your documents now you

1823
01:32:32,729 --> 01:32:30,280
really didn't want that to happen more

1824
01:32:36,390 --> 01:32:32,739
than once once was too many times but

1825
01:32:41,879 --> 01:32:36,400
after that you were very very conscious

1826
01:32:44,790 --> 01:32:41,889
of keeping secrets I think we were sort

1827
01:32:47,459 --> 01:32:44,800
of leaning towards this before that the

1828
01:32:48,470 --> 01:32:47,469
military it seems to be very good at

1829
01:32:51,689 --> 01:32:48,480
keeping secrets

1830
01:32:53,810 --> 01:32:51,699
and so Kathleen I mean I guess that's

1831
01:32:57,899 --> 01:32:53,820
probably where you stand right I mean if

1832
01:32:59,610 --> 01:32:57,909
if there was any other incident a UFO

1833
01:33:03,660 --> 01:32:59,620
sighting or crash or what have you

1834
01:33:07,290 --> 01:33:03,670
even today if the military steps in and

1835
01:33:08,530 --> 01:33:07,300
takes control then I'm assuming you

1836
01:33:11,440 --> 01:33:08,540
believe that

1837
01:33:15,100 --> 01:33:11,450
you know there will be no loose lips

1838
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:15,110
right or like the rod that is correct

1839
01:33:20,200 --> 01:33:18,170
yes I don't think that there will be you

1840
01:33:23,710 --> 01:33:20,210
know it would be classified above top

1841
01:33:28,150 --> 01:33:23,720
secret top secret code word and those

1842
01:33:32,650 --> 01:33:28,160
kinds of secrets are not released to the

1843
01:33:36,790 --> 01:33:32,660
public and you Loosli lips sink ships

1844
01:33:41,850 --> 01:33:36,800
and you're not going to talk about that

1845
01:33:45,330 --> 01:33:41,860
kind of thing the consequences on the

1846
01:33:51,850 --> 01:33:45,340
American public could be devastating

1847
01:33:55,270 --> 01:33:51,860
with a great deal of distress caused to

1848
01:33:58,930 --> 01:33:55,280
individuals without any preparation for

1849
01:34:00,730 --> 01:33:58,940
what have occurred yes that people did

1850
01:34:02,860 --> 01:34:00,740
eventually come out and speak about

1851
01:34:07,330 --> 01:34:02,870
Roswell New Mexico and the crash occur

1852
01:34:10,360 --> 01:34:07,340
on oh why do I got the story if there

1853
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:10,370
were articles in the paper on the day

1854
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:12,770
when the recovery was made and then a

1855
01:34:20,470 --> 01:34:18,290
day later the cover-up ensued why would

1856
01:34:27,480 --> 01:34:20,480
they come out and even later and speak

1857
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:27,490
about it if wow look it was 40 years

1858
01:34:37,990 --> 01:34:35,690
later and people don't ask about it but

1859
01:34:39,850 --> 01:34:38,000
we were assiduous and trying to track

1860
01:34:44,290 --> 01:34:39,860
down people one of the big things was

1861
01:34:46,510 --> 01:34:44,300
for example that Walter Haut who was the

1862
01:34:49,030 --> 01:34:46,520
basic public information officer and a

1863
01:34:52,570 --> 01:34:49,040
world war two Bombardier incidentally 20

1864
01:34:56,650 --> 01:34:52,580
missions over Japan he had a base

1865
01:35:03,070 --> 01:34:56,660
yearbook so when I discovered him I was

1866
01:35:05,260 --> 01:35:03,080
lucky I called the newspaper and found

1867
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:05,270
out that he worked there I didn't expect

1868
01:35:10,690 --> 01:35:07,610
that at all I was looking for anybody

1869
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:10,700
who could tell me anything about he

1870
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:13,610
works here what his wife works here he

1871
01:35:17,290 --> 01:35:15,890
didn't work there his wife did but

1872
01:35:21,970 --> 01:35:17,300
that's how I found him I was very very

1873
01:35:29,330 --> 01:35:27,020
you people were conscientious and what

1874
01:35:31,700 --> 01:35:29,340
they told me initially what I heard was

1875
01:35:34,700 --> 01:35:31,710
stuff that I found later in old

1876
01:35:37,190 --> 01:35:34,710
newspapers there were articles and some

1877
01:35:41,390 --> 01:35:37,200
reporters were assiduous and tracking

1878
01:35:44,660 --> 01:35:41,400
things down but I think they thought if

1879
01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:44,670
Joe talked I guess I can or you know

1880
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:46,650
it's so long ago it can't possibly be

1881
01:35:51,860 --> 01:35:49,410
still secret and we don't have any

1882
01:35:54,230 --> 01:35:51,870
technological information from back then

1883
01:35:55,550 --> 01:35:54,240
that's worth anything today anyway and

1884
01:35:58,990 --> 01:35:55,560
so forth and so on

1885
01:36:01,130 --> 01:35:59,000
also there Kathy hid it before our

1886
01:36:05,240 --> 01:36:01,140
attitude toward the government had

1887
01:36:08,530 --> 01:36:05,250
changed I think back in the 1970s to

1888
01:36:13,100 --> 01:36:08,540
Stan there was a lot in the news about

1889
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:13,110
UFOs and on television it was a time

1890
01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:16,290
when the Travis Walton case for example

1891
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:20,970
had made big news nationwide maybe

1892
01:36:26,990 --> 01:36:24,090
worldwide we had the famous Charlie

1893
01:36:29,750 --> 01:36:27,000
Hickson and Calvin Parker case there was

1894
01:36:33,140 --> 01:36:29,760
there were some big cases of alien

1895
01:36:38,470 --> 01:36:33,150
abduction in that time frame and so

1896
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:38,480
wasn't so important to hide this little

1897
01:36:45,260 --> 01:36:41,370
crashed saucer incident that occurred

1898
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:45,270
many many years before that given the

1899
01:36:52,160 --> 01:36:48,090
idea that people were actually being

1900
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:52,170
taken aboard craft yeah there hadn't

1901
01:36:58,880 --> 01:36:53,930
been any abductions that we knew about

1902
01:37:00,740 --> 01:36:58,890
back in the early days 40s and 50s you

1903
01:37:02,990 --> 01:37:00,750
know we didn't know about them there

1904
01:37:06,650 --> 01:37:03,000
were people abducted but they weren't

1905
01:37:09,230 --> 01:37:06,660
gonna freak out you're pretty cool yeah

1906
01:37:11,540 --> 01:37:09,240
it does seem to me that even in recent

1907
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:11,550
years those have who have come out and

1908
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:14,610
shared their stories whatever they may

1909
01:37:19,040 --> 01:37:15,090
be

1910
01:37:22,670 --> 01:37:19,050
UFO related you know it's post active

1911
01:37:25,100 --> 01:37:22,680
duty and post reserves and you know I

1912
01:37:26,450 --> 01:37:25,110
feel like as long as they're actually

1913
01:37:30,140 --> 01:37:26,460
working for the government they don't

1914
01:37:32,150 --> 01:37:30,150
come out and say anything you know it so

1915
01:37:33,750 --> 01:37:32,160
and then some sense they're still

1916
01:37:38,280 --> 01:37:33,760
honoring

1917
01:37:39,750 --> 01:37:38,290
and that oath but I think yeah you make

1918
01:37:43,320 --> 01:37:39,760
a really good point people have lost a

1919
01:37:45,540 --> 01:37:43,330
lot of trust and if they think that

1920
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:45,550
their higher duty is to the Constitution

1921
01:37:51,830 --> 01:37:48,850
and to the Republic itself then maybe

1922
01:37:57,810 --> 01:37:51,840
they will come out and say something I

1923
01:38:01,710 --> 01:37:57,820
want to ask you a very again a nostalgic

1924
01:38:07,260 --> 01:38:01,720
question this sitings the member of the

1925
01:38:10,620 --> 01:38:07,270
show sightings a long time ago was that

1926
01:38:14,940 --> 01:38:10,630
was the 90s do you do you feel like that

1927
01:38:18,210 --> 01:38:14,950
show actually had a impact on public

1928
01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:18,220
perception of this beautiful logical

1929
01:38:26,490 --> 01:38:22,330
enterprise I think anything that was on

1930
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:26,500
the tube did I think the wider the

1931
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:28,330
discussion the more people who say well

1932
01:38:35,010 --> 01:38:30,010
you know I saw one of those when I was

1933
01:38:39,060 --> 01:38:35,020
in it stimulates discussion and release

1934
01:38:40,740 --> 01:38:39,070
of information personal experiences as

1935
01:38:43,290 --> 01:38:40,750
opposed to being part of a team that was

1936
01:38:46,290 --> 01:38:43,300
examining the characteristics of UFO

1937
01:38:50,190 --> 01:38:46,300
wreckage that's another story we don't

1938
01:38:53,990 --> 01:38:50,200
get many of those reports you know but

1939
01:38:56,700 --> 01:38:54,000
having seen UFOs having helped recover

1940
01:39:00,600 --> 01:38:56,710
wreckage whatever that that's a little

1941
01:39:02,820 --> 01:39:00,610
different you know you're just telling

1942
01:39:03,900 --> 01:39:02,830
about an experience you don't have the

1943
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:03,910
pieces you don't have the

1944
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:05,170
characteristics you don't have what

1945
01:39:08,780 --> 01:39:06,610
they're made out of what their

1946
01:39:14,790 --> 01:39:08,790
capabilities are all that sort of stuff

1947
01:39:17,580 --> 01:39:14,800
so I think even today when I check my

1948
01:39:19,110 --> 01:39:17,590
audiences at the end of a lecture I ask

1949
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:19,120
how many people here believe they've

1950
01:39:22,980 --> 01:39:20,890
seen what I would consider to be a

1951
01:39:24,900 --> 01:39:22,990
flying saucer having defined my terms in

1952
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:24,910
the lecture and I just want you to raise

1953
01:39:30,480 --> 01:39:27,250
your hand and I'll just I'm not asking

1954
01:39:32,130 --> 01:39:30,490
for names or anything and so how many

1955
01:39:33,570 --> 01:39:32,140
believe they've seen what I would

1956
01:39:36,090 --> 01:39:33,580
consider to be a fly's interest raise

1957
01:39:38,550 --> 01:39:36,100
your hand I go around pointing and

1958
01:39:42,110 --> 01:39:38,560
Counting at the same time one two three

1959
01:39:46,970 --> 01:39:42,120
four typically it's 10% of the audience

1960
01:39:51,740 --> 01:39:46,980
then I ask how many of you reported

1961
01:39:56,120 --> 01:39:51,750
so 90% of the hands go down I've done

1962
01:39:57,920 --> 01:39:56,130
this hundreds of times or and if there's

1963
01:40:00,260 --> 01:39:57,930
still hands when I go through that who

1964
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:00,270
did report it I'll ask how many of you

1965
01:40:03,440 --> 01:40:02,010
were in the military at the time and if

1966
01:40:04,180 --> 01:40:03,450
there's still hands you want to tell us

1967
01:40:07,790 --> 01:40:04,190
about it

1968
01:40:09,770 --> 01:40:07,800
now I put the people on the spot one guy

1969
01:40:11,750 --> 01:40:09,780
in front of 1,300 people says I can't

1970
01:40:14,530 --> 01:40:11,760
they told me not to say anything

1971
01:40:17,900 --> 01:40:14,540
another guy said they took my pictures

1972
01:40:19,220 --> 01:40:17,910
long silence I said I'm sure the

1973
01:40:22,220 --> 01:40:19,230
audience would like to hear the rest of

1974
01:40:23,870 --> 01:40:22,230
that story well it turns out he remained

1975
01:40:28,490 --> 01:40:23,880
seated I said I'm not asking your name

1976
01:40:32,330 --> 01:40:28,500
you know give Moe microphone and he was

1977
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:32,340
an officer of Pilate and apply the plane

1978
01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:34,080
20 miles ahead they were flying across

1979
01:40:39,530 --> 01:40:36,530
the Pacific 20 miles ahead radioed back

1980
01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:39,540
that saucer heading your way and they

1981
01:40:44,390 --> 01:40:40,890
had gun cameras and they took pictures

1982
01:40:47,240 --> 01:40:44,400
and they contacted the base intelligence

1983
01:40:51,020 --> 01:40:47,250
office and when they landed the film got

1984
01:40:55,940 --> 01:40:51,030
taken and they got debriefed and told

1985
01:40:57,290 --> 01:40:55,950
never to say anything you know and under

1986
01:40:58,820 --> 01:40:57,300
those conditions somebody tells you

1987
01:41:02,690 --> 01:40:58,830
never to say anything and you're in the

1988
01:41:06,860 --> 01:41:02,700
military you keep your mouth shut you

1989
01:41:09,230 --> 01:41:06,870
know and a little story out of Vietnam

1990
01:41:11,120 --> 01:41:09,240
guy came up to me after a luxurious I'll

1991
01:41:13,400 --> 01:41:11,130
talk to you later when I asked you know

1992
01:41:17,500 --> 01:41:13,410
he'd tell me more so he comes over and

1993
01:41:21,350 --> 01:41:17,510
he was flying a helicopter in them and

1994
01:41:25,100 --> 01:41:21,360
this leaked vehicle came out suddenly

1995
01:41:27,230 --> 01:41:25,110
showed up circled around them twice they

1996
01:41:29,330 --> 01:41:27,240
thought for sure they were gonna be that

1997
01:41:30,530 --> 01:41:29,340
it was a new Russian vehicle they were

1998
01:41:33,110 --> 01:41:30,540
gonna be splattered across the

1999
01:41:35,860 --> 01:41:33,120
countryside and it took off so when they

2000
01:41:37,730 --> 01:41:35,870
landed he dutifully reported the case

2001
01:41:39,380 --> 01:41:37,740
government wants to know about new

2002
01:41:42,170 --> 01:41:39,390
technology showing up in a battlefield

2003
01:41:44,150 --> 01:41:42,180
and the next day the commander of the

2004
01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:44,160
base comes over to a lieutenant Jones

2005
01:41:49,490 --> 01:41:45,330
you didn't see anything strange

2006
01:41:52,280 --> 01:41:49,500
yesterday did you no sir all right no I

2007
01:41:56,690 --> 01:41:52,290
did and I reported it he said first and

2008
01:41:59,450 --> 01:41:56,700
then the colonel says you didn't hear me

2009
01:42:00,830 --> 01:41:59,460
lieutenant Jones you didn't see anything

2010
01:42:06,380 --> 01:42:00,840
strange yesterday did you

2011
01:42:09,530 --> 01:42:06,390
no sir you know it was very clear what

2012
01:42:11,150 --> 01:42:09,540
he wanted him to say and if he wanted to

2013
01:42:13,490 --> 01:42:11,160
keep you like flying was another

2014
01:42:17,260 --> 01:42:13,500
question asked along the way yes sir

2015
01:42:21,050 --> 01:42:17,270
you didn't see anything did you no sir I

2016
01:42:22,550 --> 01:42:21,060
what can I say I everybody has had these

2017
01:42:25,070 --> 01:42:22,560
kind of experiences when they talk to

2018
01:42:28,130 --> 01:42:25,080
the number of former military people

2019
01:42:30,650 --> 01:42:28,140
yeah well and the reason I was starting

2020
01:42:33,890 --> 01:42:30,660
with the show you know 20-some years ago

2021
01:42:35,270 --> 01:42:33,900
is because when that show came on though

2022
01:42:36,790 --> 01:42:35,280
it was creative sometimes and it's

2023
01:42:41,750 --> 01:42:36,800
telling it it really wasn't

2024
01:42:44,150 --> 01:42:41,760
sensationalism fast forward to today and

2025
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:44,160
there is an enormous amount of

2026
01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:48,770
sensationalism on the topic of UFOs and

2027
01:42:54,890 --> 01:42:53,370
extraterrestrials yeah morinda in the

2028
01:42:57,500 --> 01:42:54,900
wrong direction or does it does it not

2029
01:43:00,080 --> 01:42:57,510
matter well I don't think it matters

2030
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:00,090
because I think the percentage of people

2031
01:43:03,980 --> 01:43:02,010
who think that there is a life out there

2032
01:43:05,860 --> 01:43:03,990
is very high today and it wasn't fifty

2033
01:43:08,060 --> 01:43:05,870
years ago

2034
01:43:14,450 --> 01:43:08,070
there were many people who thought we

2035
01:43:16,280 --> 01:43:14,460
were the only ones around to me well the

2036
01:43:17,780 --> 01:43:16,290
further thought that if there was any

2037
01:43:23,180 --> 01:43:17,790
way out there they can't get here anyway

2038
01:43:26,780 --> 01:43:23,190
so you know no problem to me the

2039
01:43:31,190 --> 01:43:26,790
decision is based upon how accurate the

2040
01:43:35,140 --> 01:43:31,200
reports are if it is fiction being

2041
01:43:38,900 --> 01:43:35,150
presented as fact for the purpose of

2042
01:43:44,060 --> 01:43:38,910
sensationalizing a story then I'm very

2043
01:43:46,370 --> 01:43:44,070
much opposed to that but if it is

2044
01:43:50,150 --> 01:43:46,380
presented as something that is

2045
01:43:53,990 --> 01:43:50,160
extraordinary and did actually occur and

2046
01:43:56,890 --> 01:43:54,000
it's being presented accurately that I

2047
01:44:01,250 --> 01:43:56,900
think that that's a very good thing and

2048
01:44:03,260 --> 01:44:01,260
the television media is the one media

2049
01:44:06,980 --> 01:44:03,270
where you're going to reach the largest

2050
01:44:11,960 --> 01:44:06,990
number of people there will be millions

2051
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:11,970
of people viewing it right in front of

2052
01:44:16,610 --> 01:44:14,610
me I have the UFO investigators handbook

2053
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:16,620
the practical guide to researching

2054
01:44:21,170 --> 01:44:18,690
identifying and documenting unexpected

2055
01:44:24,700 --> 01:44:21,180
sightings by Craig Glen day forward by

2056
01:44:30,410 --> 01:44:24,710
Stanton T Friedman this book is from 99

2057
01:44:32,510 --> 01:44:30,420
and I and I wonder if if you both will

2058
01:44:35,150 --> 01:44:32,520
have ever considered creating your own

2059
01:44:37,400 --> 01:44:35,160
version of a UFO investigators handbook

2060
01:44:39,080 --> 01:44:37,410
because I know there are a lot of people

2061
01:44:43,880 --> 01:44:39,090
out there that do want to investigate

2062
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:43,890
and my suspicion is assuming that you

2063
01:44:48,140 --> 01:44:45,210
know people are doing the right thing

2064
01:44:52,580 --> 01:44:48,150
and they're they're grounded and in data

2065
01:44:55,610 --> 01:44:52,590
and proper research and approach that

2066
01:44:58,700 --> 01:44:55,620
the more people we have investigating

2067
01:45:00,950 --> 01:44:58,710
the better for you follow G and so would

2068
01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:00,960
you guys ever consider doing a book

2069
01:45:06,770 --> 01:45:03,690
together you know to to help bring up

2070
01:45:09,200 --> 01:45:06,780
another generation of investigators well

2071
01:45:11,660 --> 01:45:09,210
we've done three books together yes and

2072
01:45:13,990 --> 01:45:11,670
you know I I really think that we should

2073
01:45:17,210 --> 01:45:14,000
leave that to the mutual UFO network

2074
01:45:20,150 --> 01:45:17,220
they have a very very good training

2075
01:45:22,340 --> 01:45:20,160
program for field investigators they

2076
01:45:24,950 --> 01:45:22,350
have a very well written field

2077
01:45:29,390 --> 01:45:24,960
investigators manual which is a handbook

2078
01:45:33,260 --> 01:45:29,400
and in fact I wrote part of that manual

2079
01:45:36,260 --> 01:45:33,270
and I think that that is the best place

2080
01:45:39,980 --> 01:45:36,270
for anyone to go to if they want to

2081
01:45:42,620 --> 01:45:39,990
learn to become a good field

2082
01:45:46,850 --> 01:45:42,630
investigator and that's what I did way

2083
01:45:50,480 --> 01:45:46,860
back in 1991 when I wanted to

2084
01:45:53,050 --> 01:45:50,490
investigate the hill case myself is to

2085
01:45:55,010 --> 01:45:53,060
become a MUFON field investigator and

2086
01:45:57,650 --> 01:45:55,020
undergo that training

2087
01:46:00,590 --> 01:45:57,660
it was very well worth it and that's

2088
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:00,600
what I would recommend to anybody okay

2089
01:46:08,420 --> 01:46:02,250
yeah I guess they can just go to you

2090
01:46:11,330 --> 01:46:08,430
MUFON search the site somewhere yes go

2091
01:46:12,860 --> 01:46:11,340
to my website they get me fons address

2092
01:46:15,280 --> 01:46:12,870
there's new funds address on your

2093
01:46:19,880 --> 01:46:15,290
website camping I believe that it is

2094
01:46:21,140 --> 01:46:19,890
yeah because I know mine is so go to the

2095
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:21,150
guys have been spending a lot of time

2096
01:46:28,250 --> 01:46:25,130
formed formatting and arranging things

2097
01:46:30,320 --> 01:46:28,260
we can't do it all

2098
01:46:33,020 --> 01:46:30,330
and you've done an enormous amount which

2099
01:46:36,080 --> 01:46:33,030
which is astounding and its own right

2100
01:46:39,340 --> 01:46:36,090
and I just imagine if we had tenfold as

2101
01:46:42,830 --> 01:46:39,350
many you know how far along may we be

2102
01:46:46,340 --> 01:46:42,840
pretty far yes you know if we could get

2103
01:46:47,570 --> 01:46:46,350
more media people getting involved

2104
01:46:50,210 --> 01:46:47,580
mm-hmm

2105
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:50,220
and incidentally there's something

2106
01:46:57,550 --> 01:46:53,970
that's happened very recently popular

2107
01:46:59,660 --> 01:46:57,560
science put out a whole issue and not

2108
01:47:02,810 --> 01:46:59,670
popular songs the Scientific American

2109
01:47:06,530 --> 01:47:02,820
sorry much higher level put out a whole

2110
01:47:09,770 --> 01:47:06,540
issue on looking for extraterrestrial

2111
01:47:13,820 --> 01:47:09,780
life and Newsweek magazine a special

2112
01:47:17,060 --> 01:47:13,830
edition I just got it a week ago all

2113
01:47:19,430 --> 01:47:17,070
about life in the universe 100 pages

2114
01:47:24,950 --> 01:47:19,440
long and it talks about UFOs in a

2115
01:47:28,160 --> 01:47:24,960
serious way and so I I'm encouraged by

2116
01:47:31,150 --> 01:47:28,170
that I mean Scientific American and

2117
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:31,160
Newsweek are two very respectable

2118
01:47:39,050 --> 01:47:35,570
publications and they were not you know

2119
01:47:41,210 --> 01:47:39,060
laughing about the subject at all and

2120
01:47:44,900 --> 01:47:41,220
that's great that's that's exactly what

2121
01:47:49,820 --> 01:47:44,910
we need to bring us back to the original

2122
01:47:52,280 --> 01:47:49,830
topic of Roswell so the the craft that

2123
01:47:55,580 --> 01:47:52,290
was recovered what what happened to that

2124
01:47:57,890 --> 01:47:55,590
where did that go well we think the

2125
01:47:59,360 --> 01:47:57,900
wreckage went to several places one

2126
01:48:01,070 --> 01:47:59,370
would be wright-patterson Air Force Base

2127
01:48:03,020 --> 01:48:01,080
because that's where the foreign

2128
01:48:04,940 --> 01:48:03,030
technology division of the Air Force was

2129
01:48:07,210 --> 01:48:04,950
I was there many times I had a contract

2130
01:48:10,640 --> 01:48:07,220
with them looking at foreign technology

2131
01:48:13,120 --> 01:48:10,650
Russian not alien but while I was there

2132
01:48:15,740 --> 01:48:13,130
I visited Project Blue Book and so forth

2133
01:48:20,870 --> 01:48:15,750
some I'm sure some of it went to Los

2134
01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:20,880
Alamos they had a biology section there

2135
01:48:25,340 --> 01:48:22,770
they were very concerned about the

2136
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:25,350
effects of radiation on people so if

2137
01:48:34,300 --> 01:48:30,530
you're used to handling people bodies

2138
01:48:38,480 --> 01:48:34,310
that's the place you send them and so

2139
01:48:41,030 --> 01:48:38,490
there has been plenty of opportunity for

2140
01:48:41,990 --> 01:48:41,040
very competent people to get heavily

2141
01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:42,000
involved in

2142
01:48:48,860 --> 01:48:44,850
ecology on the inside instead of from

2143
01:48:50,810 --> 01:48:48,870
the outside the way we are and some of

2144
01:48:53,120 --> 01:48:50,820
them will talk maybe if we can convince

2145
01:48:56,960 --> 01:48:53,130
enough of them that the government the

2146
01:48:59,960 --> 01:48:56,970
people are entitled to know and you know

2147
01:49:04,100 --> 01:48:59,970
it I'm very curious about two major

2148
01:49:07,760 --> 01:49:04,110
publications doing whole issues within a

2149
01:49:11,120 --> 01:49:07,770
month period that's you know who else is

2150
01:49:15,290 --> 01:49:11,130
it going to pick up when's the next one

2151
01:49:17,660 --> 01:49:15,300
coming out and I'll bet they sold well

2152
01:49:24,200 --> 01:49:17,670
too so that's always an encouragement of

2153
01:49:26,450 --> 01:49:24,210
a magazine to write and once in a while

2154
01:49:28,130 --> 01:49:26,460
I do see mainstream does put something

2155
01:49:31,760 --> 01:49:28,140
out because I think it sells papers it

2156
01:49:33,950 --> 01:49:31,770
attracts viewers on occasion kathleen so

2157
01:49:35,990 --> 01:49:33,960
you know the the crap that was recovered

2158
01:49:41,210 --> 01:49:36,000
what do you think happened with that

2159
01:49:44,390 --> 01:49:41,220
technology i do believe that we did

2160
01:49:47,150 --> 01:49:44,400
attempt to back engineer some of that

2161
01:49:51,560 --> 01:49:47,160
technology and that it took many many

2162
01:49:54,260 --> 01:49:51,570
years because and I asked Bob would dr.

2163
01:49:59,380 --> 01:49:54,270
Bob what about that who at one time was

2164
01:50:04,160 --> 01:49:59,390
Stan's boss and what he told me is that

2165
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:04,170
we you have to be fairly close in in

2166
01:50:09,710 --> 01:50:06,930
terms of development to the point where

2167
01:50:14,450 --> 01:50:09,720
that craft was if you're going to be

2168
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:14,460
able to back engineer it so maybe we

2169
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:17,850
were close to the development of for

2170
01:50:24,590 --> 01:50:22,410
example night-vision goggles and that

2171
01:50:28,220 --> 01:50:24,600
might have been something that came from

2172
01:50:34,370 --> 01:50:28,230
that craft there are other things such

2173
01:50:37,400 --> 01:50:34,380
as fiber optics that perhaps might have

2174
01:50:39,200 --> 01:50:37,410
been developed as a result of that and

2175
01:50:43,550 --> 01:50:39,210
I'm speculating here I don't have

2176
01:50:47,810 --> 01:50:43,560
evidence example I can give you one

2177
01:50:49,820 --> 01:50:47,820
example I was reading in our I used to

2178
01:50:51,350 --> 01:50:49,830
do a weekly science commentary about new

2179
01:50:54,170 --> 01:50:51,360
developments read a lot of scientific

2180
01:50:55,450 --> 01:50:54,180
literature and there was one about the

2181
01:50:57,130 --> 01:50:55,460
development of new

2182
01:51:01,390 --> 01:50:57,140
better permanent magnets

2183
01:51:04,540 --> 01:51:01,400
neodymium-iron-boron and it mentioned in

2184
01:51:07,240 --> 01:51:04,550
the article about these new ones that

2185
01:51:10,450 --> 01:51:07,250
the original work on samarium-cobalt

2186
01:51:14,140 --> 01:51:10,460
which were the leading permanent magnets

2187
01:51:17,580 --> 01:51:14,150
way back in the 40s that the work was

2188
01:51:27,220 --> 01:51:17,590
done at wright-patterson Air Force Base

2189
01:51:29,770 --> 01:51:27,230
and so I think as it turns out the the

2190
01:51:31,060 --> 01:51:29,780
pieces would have been sent to labs and

2191
01:51:33,220 --> 01:51:31,070
you'd figure out what the heck is this

2192
01:51:35,229 --> 01:51:33,230
stuff and somebody would have said well

2193
01:51:38,080 --> 01:51:35,239
I don't know where this is coming from

2194
01:51:39,940 --> 01:51:38,090
or what it relates to but it's samarium

2195
01:51:42,790 --> 01:51:39,950
and cobalt why would you put those two

2196
01:51:44,560 --> 01:51:42,800
together and well that's not your

2197
01:51:47,979 --> 01:51:44,570
problem we'll go to somebody else and

2198
01:51:50,110 --> 01:51:47,989
you measure the properties and the guy

2199
01:51:52,570 --> 01:51:50,120
comes back and said at the highest

2200
01:51:54,580 --> 01:51:52,580
magnetic field from any material I've

2201
01:51:56,890 --> 01:51:54,590
ever tested make a great permanent

2202
01:51:58,510 --> 01:51:56,900
magnet okay and then you go to somebody

2203
01:52:01,000 --> 01:51:58,520
else how do you put together samarium

2204
01:52:04,120 --> 01:52:01,010
and cobalt so they make a sensible

2205
01:52:06,550 --> 01:52:04,130
material well when I was reading this

2206
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:06,560
article the original work was done at

2207
01:52:11,500 --> 01:52:10,010
wright-patterson Air Force Base that's

2208
01:52:15,790 --> 01:52:11,510
where the wreckage would have been

2209
01:52:18,430 --> 01:52:15,800
brought so I think there's a slight

2210
01:52:20,979 --> 01:52:18,440
example of where you grab a ball and run

2211
01:52:22,870 --> 01:52:20,989
with it here's something different let's

2212
01:52:26,110 --> 01:52:22,880
see what we can do oh we can make that

2213
01:52:30,540 --> 01:52:26,120
now you can't go into your local v &

2214
01:52:32,350 --> 01:52:30,550
diamond by samarium-cobalt but at least

2215
01:52:36,370 --> 01:52:32,360
appropriate people would have been able

2216
01:52:37,930 --> 01:52:36,380
to follow up on that and I think so you

2217
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:37,940
can call that back engineering if you

2218
01:52:43,479 --> 01:52:40,730
want us look during World War two if a

2219
01:52:45,850 --> 01:52:43,489
German airplane crashed in England we

2220
01:52:47,260 --> 01:52:45,860
looked at the wreckage to see what we

2221
01:52:49,420 --> 01:52:47,270
could learn about the materials that

2222
01:52:51,400 --> 01:52:49,430
were used stuff like that if it hadn't

2223
01:52:53,950 --> 01:52:51,410
been all destroyed by an explosion or

2224
01:52:55,870 --> 01:52:53,960
something its standard practice if I was

2225
01:52:58,150 --> 01:52:55,880
an English plane crashed in Germany

2226
01:53:00,490 --> 01:52:58,160
let's look at the pieces what are they

2227
01:53:02,590 --> 01:53:00,500
doing that we aren't doing that this has

2228
01:53:02,970 --> 01:53:02,600
been standard practice for a very long

2229
01:53:05,650 --> 01:53:02,980
time

2230
01:53:09,020 --> 01:53:05,660
make better to the spirit yeah because

2231
01:53:12,170 --> 01:53:09,030
we've got the enemy look what they did

2232
01:53:15,070 --> 01:53:12,180
so there's nothing surprising about that

2233
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:15,080
and there are people who specialize in

2234
01:53:21,380 --> 01:53:19,770
back engineering so Kathleen you do

2235
01:53:23,930 --> 01:53:21,390
believe then that there was a UFO

2236
01:53:27,800 --> 01:53:23,940
recovered and that there were alien

2237
01:53:31,690 --> 01:53:27,810
beings recovered and Stan thenew you

2238
01:53:34,280 --> 01:53:31,700
agree correct yes yes and this all

2239
01:53:38,270 --> 01:53:34,290
originated from Roswell New Mexico the

2240
01:53:42,410 --> 01:53:38,280
corona crash yeah that was the earliest

2241
01:53:45,050 --> 01:53:42,420
one then came Aztec and then came a

2242
01:53:49,220 --> 01:53:45,060
place in Pennsylvania and then came one

2243
01:53:53,710 --> 01:53:49,230
in the northern part of Washington State

2244
01:53:56,840 --> 01:53:53,720
that there have been several crashes but

2245
01:53:59,240 --> 01:53:56,850
let's face it it's perfectly clear if

2246
01:54:02,480 --> 01:53:59,250
you can grab a hold of an advanced piece

2247
01:54:05,660 --> 01:54:02,490
of technology then maybe you can learn

2248
01:54:07,700 --> 01:54:05,670
something that we don't yet know but

2249
01:54:09,740 --> 01:54:07,710
that doesn't mean you can build another

2250
01:54:11,480 --> 01:54:09,750
one it doesn't mean you can build

2251
01:54:13,580 --> 01:54:11,490
another look you give the smartest

2252
01:54:17,740 --> 01:54:13,590
people on the planet a digital

2253
01:54:20,330 --> 01:54:17,750
wristwatch $25 watch today back in 1934

2254
01:54:21,950 --> 01:54:20,340
they'd have known it was a watch keeps

2255
01:54:23,450 --> 01:54:21,960
time they could see there's a battery

2256
01:54:26,480 --> 01:54:23,460
there if you look carefully

2257
01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:26,490
could they have duplicated the watch no

2258
01:54:31,790 --> 01:54:29,610
chance or they even the chip not at all

2259
01:54:35,180 --> 01:54:31,800
we didn't have the capability of doing

2260
01:54:38,690 --> 01:54:35,190
it then that's somebody give me a great

2261
01:54:40,190 --> 01:54:38,700
spot what that was a good point even if

2262
01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:40,200
you knew what it was you could recognize

2263
01:54:46,130 --> 01:54:42,570
what its uses it does not mean that you

2264
01:54:48,320 --> 01:54:46,140
can grapple with its advanced

2265
01:54:52,610 --> 01:54:48,330
technologies that's that's it for the

2266
01:54:54,710 --> 01:54:52,620
show I this went by so fast thank you so

2267
01:54:57,110 --> 01:54:54,720
much Stanton and Kathleen for joining me

2268
01:54:58,130 --> 01:54:57,120
I really do appreciate it well thanks

2269
01:54:59,960 --> 01:54:58,140
for having us

2270
01:55:02,540 --> 01:54:59,970
yes that's great so if you want to find

2271
01:55:05,120 --> 01:55:02,550
out more about Stanton go to Stanton

2272
01:55:08,690 --> 01:55:05,130
Friedman and dot-com that spelled Fri

2273
01:55:13,760 --> 01:55:08,700
Edie Stanton Friedman calm and Kathleen

2274
01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:13,770
Martin is Kathleen - Martin dot come if

2275
01:55:18,540 --> 01:55:16,570
you love ufology then

2276
01:55:20,790 --> 01:55:18,550
you have to check out all of their many

2277
01:55:23,640 --> 01:55:20,800
books that they've worked on between the

2278
01:55:24,390 --> 01:55:23,650
two of them we have a great deal to be

2279
01:55:27,090 --> 01:55:24,400
thankful for

2280
01:55:28,770 --> 01:55:27,100
I know I am and I'm also grateful to be

2281
01:55:31,950 --> 01:55:28,780
part of this podcast on the inception

2282
01:55:33,930 --> 01:55:31,960
radio network and that's it thank you

2283
01:55:37,470 --> 01:55:33,940
again there's Alan B Smith I want to

2284
01:55:40,590 --> 01:55:37,480
thank Joe champion Bob tarmac and MJ